1 00:02:19,649 --> 00:02:22,795 We are in the presence of a legend with many faces 2 00:02:23,453 --> 00:02:26,681 loathed by many, admired deeply by others. 3 00:02:26,955 --> 00:02:29,092 Her name is still taboo in Germany. 4 00:02:30,484 --> 00:02:35,066 Leni Riefenstahl, the most influential filmmaker of the Third Reich, 5 00:02:35,878 --> 00:02:40,537 the last great surviving image maker of the Nazis. 6 00:02:44,737 --> 00:02:47,908 A film about Leni Riefenstahl, can content itself 7 00:02:47,909 --> 00:02:50,073 with updating the old prejudices. 8 00:02:50,676 --> 00:02:55,149 Or it can attempt to deconstruct her myth, and to look at it afresh 9 00:02:55,742 --> 00:02:59,027 A feminist pioneer or a woman of evil. 10 00:03:00,019 --> 00:03:02,433 One thing is certain, she is still 11 00:03:02,434 --> 00:03:06,209 the most famous female film director in the world. 12 00:03:19,185 --> 00:03:22,896 This film will approach her without preconceptions. 13 00:03:29,318 --> 00:03:32,901 What do you feel, looking at those pictures? 14 00:03:36,736 --> 00:03:43,041 Well, really as if the person in this picture is not me... 15 00:03:43,326 --> 00:03:44,877 but just some actress 16 00:03:46,037 --> 00:03:48,260 This innocence, enthusiasm... 17 00:03:48,570 --> 00:03:52,805 then the fall from fame, the great disappointment... 18 00:03:53,094 --> 00:03:55,102 how do you see all that today? 19 00:03:57,757 --> 00:04:02,631 It's all so long ago now, I've long since got over it 20 00:04:02,901 --> 00:04:05,483 I don't think about it anymore 21 00:04:05,709 --> 00:04:09,304 At my age... 22 00:04:09,553 --> 00:04:15,134 I'll be 90 this year... 23 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,880 many decades have now gone by. 24 00:04:18,071 --> 00:04:20,104 They were bad times 25 00:04:20,438 --> 00:04:26,564 It's like another world but no longer live in that past 26 00:04:26,786 --> 00:04:30,905 Guest Dance Performance 27 00:04:36,265 --> 00:04:41,222 An Evening of Dance 28 00:04:43,620 --> 00:04:48,434 I really only wanted to go on stage as an experiment 29 00:04:48,711 --> 00:04:53,220 To see whether I would make a good dancer 30 00:04:53,448 --> 00:04:58,884 But I had such a huge success, I was immediately engaged by Max Reinhardt 31 00:04:59,290 --> 00:05:03,920 Then Prague wanted me, and Zurich. It was incredible, intoxicating 32 00:05:43,198 --> 00:05:46,555 It was incredible 33 00:05:46,712 --> 00:05:53,158 This station here at Nollendorfplatz totally changed my life 34 00:05:53,393 --> 00:05:56,535 I was standing here waiting for a train 35 00:05:56,936 --> 00:06:03,295 I had to go to the doctor. I had hurt my knee badly and couldn't dance 36 00:06:03,944 --> 00:06:08,927 I was impatient because the train was late 37 00:06:09,158 --> 00:06:14,810 But, as it drew in, I suddenly saw a poster for a film... 38 00:06:15,092 --> 00:06:16,545 'Mountain of Destiny' 39 00:06:16,874 --> 00:06:20,939 It showed a mountaineer stepping across a chasm 40 00:06:21,137 --> 00:06:24,093 I was so fascinated I missed the train 41 00:06:24,329 --> 00:06:26,773 I stood rooted to the spot 42 00:06:27,084 --> 00:06:33,231 I read: 'Mountain of Destiny' Mozartsaal Cinema, Nollendorfplatz 43 00:06:33,386 --> 00:06:36,997 It was right here. I forgot the doctor and everything else... 44 00:06:37,333 --> 00:06:40,216 and went to the cinema 45 00:06:45,702 --> 00:06:48,719 'Mountain of Destiny' directed by Arnold Fanck 46 00:06:48,984 --> 00:06:51,365 was the first feature film in the history of cinema 47 00:06:51,534 --> 00:06:53,708 to set its drama high in the mountains. 48 00:06:54,197 --> 00:06:57,867 When she saw it, the film was to change Riefenstahl's life. 49 00:07:19,047 --> 00:07:21,821 Frank had invented an evocative new genre 50 00:07:21,977 --> 00:07:23,268 the mountain film. 51 00:07:31,158 --> 00:07:33,881 It was a totally new kind of film 52 00:07:34,015 --> 00:07:36,613 The first mountaineering film 53 00:07:36,926 --> 00:07:41,025 The first with sequences so filled with movement 54 00:07:41,259 --> 00:07:45,139 The clouds were alive with movement. We'd never seen that before 55 00:07:45,450 --> 00:07:48,485 Fanck was breaking new ground 56 00:07:48,876 --> 00:07:52,975 His use of slow motion, lighting, the composition of his shots... 57 00:07:53,262 --> 00:07:58,245 It was all artistic and way ahead of its time 58 00:07:58,743 --> 00:08:04,878 I didn't know much about film but realised I was looking... 59 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:10,566 at a very special art-form on the screen for the first time 60 00:08:14,672 --> 00:08:17,645 Riefenstahl immediately set off in search of Fanck, 61 00:08:17,908 --> 00:08:20,377 and quite by chance met his leading actor 62 00:08:20,491 --> 00:08:23,120 Luis Trenker in a hotel in the Dolomites 63 00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:30,799 She came up and said she wanted to star opposite me in my next film 64 00:08:31,069 --> 00:08:36,110 She's crazy, I thought. Then she gave me a lovely photo of herself 65 00:08:36,439 --> 00:08:39,201 I sent it to Fanck and wrote: 66 00:08:39,501 --> 00:08:43,313 Dear Fanck, this woman is beautiful 67 00:08:43,624 --> 00:08:49,769 She's determined to be in your next film, starring opposite me 68 00:08:49,926 --> 00:08:53,220 It's all a fantasy... 69 00:08:53,522 --> 00:08:58,725 but I enclose her photo. Do what you like with it 70 00:08:59,776 --> 00:09:02,391 Fanck was smitten, and was so fascinated by her 71 00:09:02,516 --> 00:09:05,567 that he asked her to play the starring role in his next film 72 00:09:05,748 --> 00:09:10,076 I'd hurt my knee seriously while dancing 73 00:09:10,241 --> 00:09:16,562 So I sent Fanck my photos and the rave reviews 74 00:09:17,058 --> 00:09:21,113 Presumably because of the pictures and reviews... 75 00:09:21,403 --> 00:09:23,304 ..he visited me in hospital 76 00:09:23,718 --> 00:09:30,003 To my amazement he handed me a script on which was written: 77 00:09:30,156 --> 00:09:35,864 "'The Sacred Mountain' written in 3 days and nights for Leni Riefenstahl" 78 00:09:36,165 --> 00:09:37,954 Then Fanck wrote to me: 79 00:09:38,231 --> 00:09:42,678 You're the one who's crazy. She'll be Germany's greatest star 80 00:09:42,971 --> 00:09:49,543 She's going to be your leading lady so see you get on with her 81 00:10:06,733 --> 00:10:12,320 The script said I had to be buried by an avalanche 82 00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:16,343 We were quite mad to do it 83 00:10:16,652 --> 00:10:22,291 I can show you the spot or as near as makes no difference 84 00:10:24,884 --> 00:10:27,254 Up there 85 00:10:27,561 --> 00:10:31,845 We stood on a rock-face like that 86 00:10:31,988 --> 00:10:33,468 Maybe even steeper 87 00:10:43,874 --> 00:10:45,805 I had to cling... 88 00:10:45,935 --> 00:10:50,540 onto a rock with my hands... 89 00:10:51,770 --> 00:10:54,586 until the avalanche came down 90 00:11:06,471 --> 00:11:09,680 Not just once but two or three times 91 00:11:11,882 --> 00:11:18,032 People today say it was madness, but Fanck demanded our all 92 00:11:24,232 --> 00:11:28,587 This is where I did my first directing 93 00:11:29,098 --> 00:11:33,276 Since the last time we filmed here... 94 00:11:33,554 --> 00:11:36,123 sixty-six years have gone by 95 00:11:46,067 --> 00:11:48,181 I will never forget this scene 96 00:11:48,471 --> 00:11:51,781 It wasn't only my first time as director... 97 00:11:52,071 --> 00:11:56,248 it was the first time I had to wind a camera 98 00:11:56,553 --> 00:12:01,429 In those days there were no electric cameras 99 00:12:01,761 --> 00:12:06,762 It would all have gone wonderfully but there was an accident 100 00:12:07,069 --> 00:12:11,457 The moment I began turning the handle to shoot... 101 00:12:11,767 --> 00:12:15,935 there was a terrible bang as a torch exploded 102 00:12:16,291 --> 00:12:20,931 The boy holding it was behind me. There was a sheet of flame 103 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:23,024 My face was burnt 104 00:12:23,356 --> 00:12:25,826 but I went on filming 105 00:12:28,838 --> 00:12:31,922 I could feel the pain... 106 00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:34,835 but I finished the shot 107 00:12:35,144 --> 00:12:39,566 And when I'd finished I looked in the mirror 108 00:12:39,893 --> 00:12:41,808 My face was black 109 00:12:42,104 --> 00:12:47,411 Then I heard a little boy had also nearly been burnt... 110 00:12:47,758 --> 00:12:49,431 but they rescued him 111 00:12:51,083 --> 00:12:53,565 In the Berlin of the early 1920s, 112 00:12:53,566 --> 00:12:56,195 war profiteers and black market millionaires 113 00:12:56,196 --> 00:12:57,721 flaunted their wealth 114 00:13:04,755 --> 00:13:07,914 But, for most of the people, life was wretched 115 00:13:08,182 --> 00:13:09,382 Many was starving 116 00:13:09,472 --> 00:13:12,875 Soup kitchens and food queues were a common sight on the streets 117 00:13:13,107 --> 00:13:15,243 Social unrest was rife. 118 00:13:34,522 --> 00:13:36,732 Berlin, 60 years later 119 00:13:37,490 --> 00:13:42,283 For this film, Leni Riefenstahl and her companion of many years, Horst Kettner 120 00:13:42,644 --> 00:13:46,388 visit the legendary UFA Filmstudios in Babelsberg 121 00:13:46,932 --> 00:13:50,246 This is where all the classic German silent film were made 122 00:14:03,231 --> 00:14:05,924 The camera follows you... 123 00:14:06,250 --> 00:14:10,074 and you tell us how you first came to the studios 124 00:14:10,335 --> 00:14:13,962 - As I'm walking along? - Yes, is that a problem? 125 00:14:14,254 --> 00:14:18,010 - I can't speak when I'm walking - Couldn't you walk a bit? 126 00:14:18,293 --> 00:14:21,837 No, I've never done that in my life 127 00:14:23,714 --> 00:14:28,398 I've never talked while I'm walking I'm not a ghost 128 00:14:28,787 --> 00:14:29,987 Just try it 129 00:14:30,130 --> 00:14:33,788 I'm just saying I can't talk while I'm walking 130 00:14:34,102 --> 00:14:39,681 Even when I dream, I lie down or sit. I can't talk and walk 131 00:14:39,998 --> 00:14:41,462 No one told me... 132 00:14:43,362 --> 00:14:45,375 You won't listen, will you? 133 00:14:45,664 --> 00:14:47,562 I did listen 134 00:14:47,862 --> 00:14:50,913 I'll ask you a question roughly like this 135 00:14:51,263 --> 00:14:55,645 You'll answer while we pull back slowly 136 00:14:56,465 --> 00:15:01,671 But you can't walk backwards. I'd have to speak like this 137 00:15:01,784 --> 00:15:03,321 But I'm here 138 00:15:13,579 --> 00:15:16,649 How did the studio atmosphere strike you? 139 00:15:17,002 --> 00:15:19,323 It was very impressive 140 00:15:19,986 --> 00:15:23,601 Three big films were being made here 141 00:15:23,747 --> 00:15:27,189 Fritz Lang's 'Metropolis', with Brigitte Helm 142 00:15:27,499 --> 00:15:32,256 Murnau's 'Faust' with Camilla Horn and our film 'The Sacred Mountain' 143 00:15:32,582 --> 00:15:35,778 Admittedly, we were in a small studio 144 00:15:36,868 --> 00:15:42,565 But here in this studio, where I later shot scenes for 'Tiefland'... 145 00:15:43,365 --> 00:15:47,189 they'd built some fantastic sets 146 00:15:47,521 --> 00:15:50,218 They were hundreds of extras 147 00:15:52,814 --> 00:15:55,631 Did you meet any famous directors? 148 00:15:55,941 --> 00:15:57,626 I never met Lang... 149 00:15:57,918 --> 00:16:03,419 but Fanck wanted me to go for the part of Gretchen in Murnau's 'Faust' 150 00:16:03,716 --> 00:16:07,871 I got hold of a long blonde wig 151 00:16:08,196 --> 00:16:13,098 Fanck was convinced Murnau would hire me 152 00:16:13,256 --> 00:16:14,822 Muranu was interested 153 00:16:15,154 --> 00:16:21,070 I was on the short-list but Camilla was his final choice 154 00:16:23,541 --> 00:16:27,340 Leni Riefenstahl never became star tied to the studio 155 00:16:27,576 --> 00:16:30,265 From her first film, she was drawn over and over again 156 00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:32,869 away from Berlin, into the mountains 157 00:16:40,070 --> 00:16:42,249 This was my favorite area 158 00:16:42,535 --> 00:16:47,287 There's hardly a rock-face or peak I haven't climbed 159 00:17:02,853 --> 00:17:05,474 See how steep it is? 160 00:17:17,054 --> 00:17:23,173 To the left of that ridge, there's a sheer drop of over 2,000 ft 161 00:17:26,867 --> 00:17:28,090 Wonderful! 162 00:17:37,694 --> 00:17:40,236 For these mountain films, the actress from Berlin 163 00:17:40,237 --> 00:17:42,440 had to learn to ski and rock climb 164 00:17:42,595 --> 00:17:44,710 and quickly became a skilled mountaineer 165 00:18:03,413 --> 00:18:07,638 She even climbed without ropes and in bare feet for the cameras 166 00:18:12,405 --> 00:18:17,765 In those days, mountain climbing was strenuous activity practiced exclusively by men 167 00:18:18,052 --> 00:18:21,922 But Riefenstahl never had any difficulty asserting herself 168 00:18:22,491 --> 00:18:24,963 Later on, she would become the only woman 169 00:18:25,075 --> 00:18:29,272 to play a significant role in the rise of National Socialism 170 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:36,887 You can only get a general shot of the mountains behind me 171 00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:39,561 The camera must be on me... 172 00:18:39,706 --> 00:18:41,774 or it won't work 173 00:18:42,169 --> 00:18:48,492 If you want me to talk about climbing, I must face the rocks... 174 00:18:48,993 --> 00:18:50,982 But we're too far away... 175 00:18:51,292 --> 00:18:57,446 No, while I'm talking, you can film the rock-face with the telephoto 176 00:18:58,173 --> 00:19:00,058 You can edit that in 177 00:19:00,352 --> 00:19:04,760 - The mountains will be too small - But we need a general shot 178 00:19:05,071 --> 00:19:07,168 Yes, but not like that 179 00:19:07,313 --> 00:19:10,241 You must find a cinematic solution 180 00:19:10,519 --> 00:19:12,780 The mountains make no impression 181 00:19:13,018 --> 00:19:17,832 You can only do it in the cutting, never with a camera-angle 182 00:19:19,570 --> 00:19:22,863 Don't tell me you want a Hitler-salute 183 00:19:31,814 --> 00:19:37,270 Over there is the famous east face 184 00:19:38,412 --> 00:19:44,776 We had to bivouac a rope's length below the summit 185 00:19:45,282 --> 00:19:50,790 Way down, I could see lights in the huts below 186 00:19:57,183 --> 00:19:59,167 I suppose I didn't realise... 187 00:19:59,330 --> 00:20:03,492 It was fascinating because you forgot everything 188 00:20:03,789 --> 00:20:09,828 All your worries and problems... you just concentrated on not falling 189 00:20:11,146 --> 00:20:13,718 It's a sport... 190 00:20:13,864 --> 00:20:16,602 which involves the whole body 191 00:20:18,037 --> 00:20:23,105 It gives you a feeling of freedom, being so close... 192 00:20:23,234 --> 00:20:26,108 to the rocks, to nature, and the mountains 193 00:20:26,393 --> 00:20:28,127 When you reach the top... 194 00:20:28,456 --> 00:20:31,187 there's such a feeling of bliss... 195 00:20:31,493 --> 00:20:36,635 you just want to experience it as often as possible 196 00:20:55,858 --> 00:20:58,509 For the best of Arnold Fanck's mountain films, 197 00:20:58,639 --> 00:21:02,760 Riefenstahl persuaded the director to hire the famous stunt-flier Udet 198 00:21:02,924 --> 00:21:08,810 And to bring in his co-director, one of the great names in German Cinema, W.G. Pabst 199 00:21:18,932 --> 00:21:25,425 Yes, Fanck was so wonderful outdoor director for filming nature 200 00:21:25,766 --> 00:21:29,648 Pabst was a fabulous feature-film director 201 00:21:29,957 --> 00:21:33,613 I brought the two together and it worked wonderfully 202 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,416 That's the reason why 'Pizpalü' was such a success worldwide 203 00:21:39,116 --> 00:21:42,672 These shots are from a home movie, filmed by a member of the crew 204 00:21:42,818 --> 00:21:45,248 on Morteratsch Glacier in St. Moritz 205 00:21:54,147 --> 00:21:57,197 When Pabst told me to look right... 206 00:21:57,461 --> 00:22:01,146 I looked left. When he said left, I looked right 207 00:22:01,269 --> 00:22:06,617 So he said, "You're not the director. Stop looking from the camera's angle" 208 00:22:06,921 --> 00:22:10,766 He was the first to make me see.. 209 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,727 I'd a talent for directing 210 00:22:15,684 --> 00:22:19,417 An entire rock-face was iced over to create the illusion 211 00:22:19,418 --> 00:22:21,806 that the glacier had moved into the valley 212 00:22:24,873 --> 00:22:28,563 Working with Fanck was always a mental and a physical challenge 213 00:22:33,066 --> 00:22:36,147 We were on an ice-wall in 'Pizpalü' 214 00:22:36,282 --> 00:22:38,999 It was minus 28 degrees 215 00:22:39,124 --> 00:22:43,592 The Engadine hadn't been so cold for 50 years 216 00:22:43,882 --> 00:22:49,327 We were working at night and the wind-machine blew snow in my face 217 00:22:50,836 --> 00:22:55,592 - He might lose consciousness - Tie hum tight or he'll fall 218 00:23:23,435 --> 00:23:26,833 Pabst was quite different from Fanck 219 00:23:27,093 --> 00:23:32,892 Fanck gave very few directions. We had to more or less improvise 220 00:23:33,170 --> 00:23:36,277 But Pabst knew exactly what he wanted 221 00:23:36,558 --> 00:23:40,819 Without acting out the part for us, he put the actor... 222 00:23:40,989 --> 00:23:45,306 in the mental state he wanted, which is very important 223 00:23:45,471 --> 00:23:50,672 You forgot the camera and became the character you were portraying 224 00:24:07,329 --> 00:24:09,394 Maria, the rope! 225 00:24:41,246 --> 00:24:44,393 While filming with Arnold Fanck, Riefenstahl and Luis Trenker 226 00:24:44,892 --> 00:24:46,794 were themselves learning how to direct 227 00:24:47,651 --> 00:24:50,808 Fanck was a perfectionist, a stickler for details 228 00:24:51,058 --> 00:24:53,499 Even when his actors were being tested to the limit 229 00:24:57,338 --> 00:25:00,864 Oh, I'd rather not think about that 230 00:25:01,014 --> 00:25:03,687 It wasn't just bad, it was awful 231 00:25:03,996 --> 00:25:10,382 Fanck's plan was to have me hauled up and let an avalanche drop on me 232 00:25:10,819 --> 00:25:15,048 I said, "Count me out. It's out of the question" 233 00:25:15,201 --> 00:25:19,575 So he said, "Leni darling, it won't be a real avalanche" 234 00:25:19,866 --> 00:25:23,126 "We'll just drop a bit of snow on you" 235 00:25:23,431 --> 00:25:27,386 He was very persuasive and promised extra money 236 00:25:27,603 --> 00:25:31,176 I agreed and was tied up with rope 237 00:25:34,049 --> 00:25:38,377 The camera crew were up above, and off we went 238 00:25:52,860 --> 00:25:54,834 I'd only gone 10 feet... 239 00:25:55,102 --> 00:25:58,913 when a real avalanche enveloped me 240 00:25:59,177 --> 00:26:01,993 I screamed, my ears and eyes hurt 241 00:26:02,778 --> 00:26:06,038 Fanck kept the camera rolling on and on 242 00:26:15,363 --> 00:26:17,321 Then they pulled me in 243 00:26:17,563 --> 00:26:23,902 For weeks I was black and blue all over. I really hated Fanck 244 00:26:24,717 --> 00:26:29,534 In 1920s Berlin, the National Socialists were parading through the streets 245 00:26:29,949 --> 00:26:31,865 And the young fanatic named Goebbels 246 00:26:31,866 --> 00:26:35,283 was gaining notoriety with his inflammatory speeches 247 00:26:37,634 --> 00:26:40,739 As the struggle for power raged between the rival parties 248 00:26:40,886 --> 00:26:44,739 the Babelsberg studios decided to try and take on Hollywood 249 00:26:53,924 --> 00:26:56,985 In the studio, now named Marlene Dietrich Hall 250 00:26:57,244 --> 00:27:01,671 Riefenstahl furthered her education when she met Josef von Sternberg 251 00:27:10,636 --> 00:27:14,856 Von Sternberg brought me to the studio every day... 252 00:27:15,150 --> 00:27:18,582 until it got too much for Marlene 253 00:27:18,890 --> 00:27:25,204 I liked her a lot, I idolised her. She was exceptional but very jealous 254 00:27:25,512 --> 00:27:31,337 One day we had quite a row in the studio, She started it 255 00:27:31,653 --> 00:27:35,957 There was this famous scene where she sits on a barrel... 256 00:27:36,112 --> 00:27:39,358 and sings 'Falling in Love Again' 257 00:27:39,620 --> 00:27:43,535 She starting behaving very crudely... 258 00:27:43,928 --> 00:27:47,709 to try and make me leave in disgust 259 00:27:48,222 --> 00:27:51,809 Sternberg noticed and stepped in... 260 00:27:52,108 --> 00:27:56,862 but she said she'd leave the film if I came to the studio again 261 00:28:01,861 --> 00:28:08,290 He said to me, "Leni, you're the complete opposite of Marlene 262 00:28:08,616 --> 00:28:13,383 "You're both very special but quite different 263 00:28:17,505 --> 00:28:19,904 "I've shaped Marlene... 264 00:28:20,055 --> 00:28:23,129 "into this wonderful creation... 265 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,393 "and I'll do the same for you 266 00:28:26,738 --> 00:28:29,225 "You haven't been discovered yet" 267 00:28:31,745 --> 00:28:37,790 I really regret the fact that, when he offered me work in Hollywood... 268 00:28:38,094 --> 00:28:39,625 I was unable to go 269 00:28:40,001 --> 00:28:44,461 I was deeply involved with a man at the time... 270 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,825 and didn't want to leave him 271 00:28:46,976 --> 00:28:53,222 I have that to thank... 272 00:28:53,496 --> 00:28:57,685 or to regret for my not going to Hollywood 273 00:28:58,514 --> 00:29:02,051 When Von Sternberg later saw Riefenstahl's own first film, 274 00:29:02,337 --> 00:29:05,263 he was able to make a more precise judgment about her 275 00:29:06,396 --> 00:29:10,400 Yes, he'd seen me in 'The Blue Light'... 276 00:29:10,669 --> 00:29:14,022 where I played the role of Junta... 277 00:29:14,177 --> 00:29:19,666 an innocent, naive child of nature... 278 00:29:19,961 --> 00:29:23,352 who is intentionally asexual... 279 00:29:24,390 --> 00:29:29,372 whereas Marlene was the sexy type, erotic, a sort of sphinx... 280 00:29:29,668 --> 00:29:32,083 a star, an elegant super-star 281 00:29:32,424 --> 00:29:36,772 He thought I was the absolute opposite of Marlene 282 00:29:37,136 --> 00:29:39,601 I think that was probably true 283 00:29:41,024 --> 00:29:45,858 While Riefenstahl made films for Hitler, Dietrich chose to emigrate 284 00:29:46,527 --> 00:29:50,795 In his memoirs, Von Sternberg makes no reference to Riefenstahl 285 00:29:52,859 --> 00:29:56,991 In the streets of Berlin, Nazis were still struggling to win elections 286 00:29:57,647 --> 00:30:03,236 Hitler, waiting in the wings was certainly ready, but, was Germany? 287 00:30:07,335 --> 00:30:11,040 We Germans wanted a Führer... 288 00:30:11,195 --> 00:30:14,729 and we got one, right? 289 00:30:15,007 --> 00:30:19,881 We Germans are all like that, we want a Führer 290 00:30:20,246 --> 00:30:24,359 And what happens? This ghastly Hitler comes along... 291 00:30:24,505 --> 00:30:28,983 and everyone says, "Wonderful, here's a real Führer 292 00:30:29,354 --> 00:30:31,555 "Someone to tell us what to do" 293 00:30:31,881 --> 00:30:35,211 There's something in what Marlene says 294 00:30:35,504 --> 00:30:39,846 For us, at school and at home... 295 00:30:40,169 --> 00:30:45,256 discipline came first. She's right there 296 00:30:47,225 --> 00:30:51,206 Germans would be very enamored of someone... 297 00:30:51,346 --> 00:30:55,467 they thought they could model themselves on 298 00:30:55,763 --> 00:30:59,678 They're happy to let themselves be led, that's for sure 299 00:31:05,300 --> 00:31:09,553 While the Germans rallied around their new Führer in ever increasing numbers, 300 00:31:09,807 --> 00:31:12,417 Riefenstahl set off again for the mountains 301 00:31:13,119 --> 00:31:15,634 In the south Tirol, she made her first film 302 00:31:16,197 --> 00:31:20,788 a romantic fairy-tale, which she produced, directed and starred 303 00:31:37,977 --> 00:31:41,534 This rocky peak in the Brenta Massif of the south Tirol 304 00:31:41,691 --> 00:31:46,593 is transformed by Leni Riefenstahl's camera into a mysterious presence 305 00:31:47,020 --> 00:31:49,326 mythical and Wagnerian 306 00:31:56,838 --> 00:32:01,870 The girl holding the crystal is an outcast, a witch 307 00:32:03,304 --> 00:32:07,547 The crystal or crystals... 308 00:32:07,851 --> 00:32:13,752 are in fact the symbolic theme of 'The Blue Light' 309 00:32:19,132 --> 00:32:20,598 Junta... 310 00:32:20,896 --> 00:32:26,132 who is a wild, innocent mountain girl... 311 00:32:26,422 --> 00:32:30,012 was fascinated by the light in this grotto 312 00:32:30,167 --> 00:32:34,392 In the mountains was a crystal grotto which only Junta knew about 313 00:32:34,693 --> 00:32:37,142 It was only visible... 314 00:32:37,296 --> 00:32:42,427 by the blue light of a full moon shining through a crack 315 00:32:42,898 --> 00:32:45,617 Then it was a shimmer of blue 316 00:32:52,684 --> 00:32:54,064 Symbolic... 317 00:32:54,205 --> 00:32:58,723 of the ideal one always dreams of but never attains 318 00:32:58,958 --> 00:33:01,041 That's the film's theme 319 00:33:06,231 --> 00:33:09,164 Why did you choose a fairy-tale for your first film? 320 00:33:09,456 --> 00:33:12,584 I suppose because Dr. Fanck's films... 321 00:33:12,730 --> 00:33:18,695 although realistic, were set in fairy-tale landscapes 322 00:33:18,999 --> 00:33:21,623 I found that a conflict of styles 323 00:33:21,919 --> 00:33:26,645 Fairy-tale landscapes and realistic action didn't work together for me 324 00:33:26,794 --> 00:33:32,420 But since I also loved beautiful, fairy-tale, picturesque landscape... 325 00:33:32,752 --> 00:33:37,407 I thought it would be better to fit a fairy-story into it 326 00:33:39,732 --> 00:33:43,997 No one in the film understands how power of a mysterious mountain 327 00:33:44,304 --> 00:33:46,675 had access to the precious stones 328 00:33:48,224 --> 00:33:49,424 You witch 329 00:33:58,518 --> 00:34:01,889 Go away, you ugly old witch 330 00:34:26,208 --> 00:34:27,493 How beautiful 331 00:34:42,382 --> 00:34:46,792 Before I worked with Fanck, when I was a dancer... 332 00:34:46,948 --> 00:34:50,641 I'd written scripts but no screenplays 333 00:34:50,932 --> 00:34:55,011 Then I met Carl Mayer, the famous playwright... 334 00:34:55,231 --> 00:34:58,847 who'd written the material for Murnau's film... 335 00:34:58,997 --> 00:35:03,881 and Bela Balazs, who was the best screen-writer then 336 00:35:04,186 --> 00:35:08,392 They liked my material so much they gave me some good tips 337 00:35:08,702 --> 00:35:11,484 Balazs even helped me for free 338 00:35:11,768 --> 00:35:15,687 Balazs wrote the dialogue and I did the visual scenes 339 00:35:16,024 --> 00:35:18,611 It was the ideal collaboration 340 00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:20,180 Here, for instance... 341 00:35:20,494 --> 00:35:25,182 I drew the waterfall and the position of the sun 342 00:35:26,273 --> 00:35:30,108 It says here, 7:10 a.m. 343 00:35:30,404 --> 00:35:33,876 Shooting must be finished by 8 344 00:35:34,448 --> 00:35:40,168 I even put the lens to be used: a 7.5 focal length 345 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,189 It's all noted 346 00:35:42,517 --> 00:35:46,353 You put down every scene in writing 347 00:35:46,642 --> 00:35:52,001 I fine-tuned every scene through the camera, worked out the light... 348 00:35:52,281 --> 00:35:56,282 and tested everything in advance. It ran like clockwork 349 00:35:56,575 --> 00:35:59,722 We even did a rush of every scene 350 00:36:00,010 --> 00:36:04,798 We made a negative to see whether we could improve on it 351 00:36:05,092 --> 00:36:08,848 We placed a lot of importance on picture quality 352 00:36:17,408 --> 00:36:21,178 Riefenstahl was a perfectionist, and would only settle for the best 353 00:36:21,788 --> 00:36:25,845 For her first film, she ordered a special lens to be sent over from Hollywood 354 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,928 and asked the labs to develop a new film stock for the night scenes 355 00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:53,081 I was able to do that because Agfa made some special film-stock for me 356 00:36:53,368 --> 00:36:55,504 It was later called R-Stock 357 00:36:55,853 --> 00:37:02,039 If you use it with a red filter, the blue comes out dark, almost black 358 00:37:02,329 --> 00:37:07,581 I could do climbing shots as if they were at night, without a spotlight 359 00:37:07,842 --> 00:37:09,934 It was an experiment 360 00:37:49,380 --> 00:37:53,574 As Rosselini and De Sica told me, I was the first... 361 00:37:53,724 --> 00:37:57,773 to film in real locations, like a church 362 00:37:58,167 --> 00:38:00,754 We built nothing in the studio 363 00:38:01,050 --> 00:38:04,928 I was given permission to film in a church... 364 00:38:05,226 --> 00:38:11,609 while the priests were conducting a service 365 00:38:23,298 --> 00:38:26,802 The inn scenes were filmed in Bolzano 366 00:38:26,950 --> 00:38:29,861 In fact all the interior scenes... 367 00:38:30,135 --> 00:38:35,934 were shot in real locations for the first time in a feature film 368 00:39:07,498 --> 00:39:13,073 When the film was ready, I showed it to Agfa, who were the distributors 369 00:39:13,210 --> 00:39:18,840 They didn't like it at all and I was also disappointed with it 370 00:39:19,161 --> 00:39:22,666 The film did not look as I'd envisaged it 371 00:39:22,996 --> 00:39:26,034 So I went and showed it to Fanck 372 00:39:26,339 --> 00:39:31,738 And he said, "Come back tomorrow and we'll improve it 373 00:39:31,996 --> 00:39:35,252 "It has weaknesses and boring bits" 374 00:39:35,398 --> 00:39:38,316 When I went back the next day... 375 00:39:38,623 --> 00:39:44,660 he'd cut up my copy into hundreds of pieces and completely re-edited it 376 00:39:45,026 --> 00:39:46,440 I was horrified 377 00:39:46,718 --> 00:39:51,012 His version didn't work either. All my effort was wasted 378 00:39:52,754 --> 00:39:56,157 Riefenstahl's steely determination enabled her to conquer 379 00:39:56,158 --> 00:40:01,204 not a new rock-face, but also to overcome all obstacles in her career 380 00:40:02,075 --> 00:40:04,951 The fight in the editing room was to prove the first of many 381 00:40:05,645 --> 00:40:07,722 And she always got her way 382 00:40:12,017 --> 00:40:18,226 For several days, I just wept and then I began to edit it again 383 00:40:18,359 --> 00:40:23,408 And this exercise was very therapeutic 384 00:40:23,688 --> 00:40:27,032 Although I didn't like Fanck's cut... 385 00:40:27,331 --> 00:40:32,932 I noticed lots of things he'd done... 386 00:40:33,256 --> 00:40:39,219 which I'd never have thought of, like the inter-cutting of scenes 387 00:41:07,433 --> 00:41:12,383 Fanck had cut too much but I saw it was wrong not to cut at all 388 00:41:12,531 --> 00:41:16,038 So I took it over and edited it in a rhythm... 389 00:41:16,182 --> 00:41:20,665 I felt right for the subject. I hadn't done that before 390 00:41:20,950 --> 00:41:24,435 If a director shoots a scene that goes on too long... 391 00:41:24,584 --> 00:41:28,292 he doesn't always realise it needs cutting 392 00:41:28,552 --> 00:41:31,932 A particularly important scene was in the moonlight... 393 00:41:32,230 --> 00:41:34,846 when the peasants shut their doors 394 00:41:35,115 --> 00:41:41,102 At first I'd edited it - man shuts the door, next a man shuts door and so on 395 00:41:41,341 --> 00:41:44,939 That was the logical way but Fanck did it differently 396 00:41:45,123 --> 00:41:51,206 He had one man starting to shut his door, the next continuing the action 397 00:41:51,501 --> 00:41:54,749 This variety gave more interest and tension 398 00:41:55,043 --> 00:41:59,967 It was a very special method which I intuitively understood... 399 00:42:00,270 --> 00:42:03,899 and which I applied to my subject 400 00:42:04,178 --> 00:42:09,770 I still did things more slowly than he had, but not as slowly as before 401 00:42:09,916 --> 00:42:11,773 I was learning 402 00:42:18,898 --> 00:42:21,275 Don't close the shutters... 403 00:42:21,578 --> 00:42:24,019 in this fine weather 404 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:26,588 It's full moon 405 00:42:27,783 --> 00:42:30,341 Ah, the blue light 406 00:42:38,997 --> 00:42:44,728 I played this girl Junta, who is a kind of witch 407 00:42:44,874 --> 00:42:51,269 It's as if it were a premonition of my own life 408 00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:54,593 Junta was loved and hated 409 00:42:54,747 --> 00:42:59,785 It's been the same for me - I've been loved and hated 410 00:43:00,082 --> 00:43:04,035 Just as Junta lost her ideal... 411 00:43:04,197 --> 00:43:07,830 through the shattering of the crystal... 412 00:43:08,146 --> 00:43:14,489 in the same way I lost my ideals at the end of that terrible war 413 00:43:16,130 --> 00:43:22,578 To that extent the film was indeed a premonition of my own destiny 414 00:43:34,614 --> 00:43:38,186 Were you already in contact with the National Socialists? 415 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:44,761 I didn't know of their existence. I hadn't even heard of Hitler 416 00:43:45,484 --> 00:43:49,807 When I was filming 'The Blue Light' I had no idea 417 00:43:51,234 --> 00:43:55,893 Didn't Hans Jaeger say something to you about Hitler? 418 00:43:56,226 --> 00:43:58,315 He said to me: 419 00:43:58,615 --> 00:44:04,265 "Are you going to this National Socialist meeting today?" 420 00:44:04,532 --> 00:44:08,142 I didn't understand so I said "Why? What about it?" 421 00:44:08,423 --> 00:44:13,855 "Hitler's speaking today in Berlin, in the Sports Palace", he said 422 00:44:14,128 --> 00:44:15,818 "So what?" I said 423 00:44:15,949 --> 00:44:19,761 Then he said, "I've a feeling... 424 00:44:20,361 --> 00:44:26,192 "that if you heard him, it could change your life" 425 00:44:26,483 --> 00:44:30,442 I laughed and asked "How could it do that?" 426 00:44:30,570 --> 00:44:37,105 So Jaeger, who was an anti-Nazi, though I didn't know that, said: 427 00:44:37,855 --> 00:44:39,890 "Take my advice and go" 428 00:44:40,198 --> 00:44:44,834 And as I was curious, I went 429 00:44:45,872 --> 00:44:49,036 And indeed it did change my fate 430 00:44:55,858 --> 00:44:57,992 I know, my comrades... 431 00:44:58,391 --> 00:45:03,643 that it was hard for you when you thought change must come... 432 00:45:03,942 --> 00:45:05,328 and it never came 433 00:45:05,650 --> 00:45:11,952 When endless appeals were made to you that the fight must go on 434 00:45:12,259 --> 00:45:15,713 Calls not to act but to obey 435 00:45:15,876 --> 00:45:22,230 To resist but not to bend under this monstrous pressure 436 00:45:22,394 --> 00:45:27,269 It was the first time I'd ever seen a political meeting 437 00:45:27,556 --> 00:45:33,861 I found it immensely impressive and I was carried away by the atmosphere 438 00:45:34,176 --> 00:45:38,198 Hitler really fascinated me 439 00:45:38,775 --> 00:45:42,904 So I immediately wrote him a letter 440 00:45:43,193 --> 00:45:45,684 I wanted to meet him. I thought: 441 00:45:45,999 --> 00:45:49,410 May be he is the man who can save Germany 442 00:45:49,980 --> 00:45:56,424 When I asked his adjutant why I'd received a reply, he said: 443 00:45:56,559 --> 00:46:02,442 "The Führer was thrilled with your dance by the sea... 444 00:46:02,715 --> 00:46:05,226 "in 'The Sacred Mountain'" 445 00:46:29,215 --> 00:46:31,973 What was your impression of him? 446 00:46:32,275 --> 00:46:37,521 Interestingly, quite the opposite of my impression at the Stadium 447 00:46:37,845 --> 00:46:41,545 There he'd seemed a politician... 448 00:46:41,827 --> 00:46:45,386 trying to enthuse people 449 00:46:45,655 --> 00:46:49,561 Now he seemed a modest, private individual 450 00:46:49,869 --> 00:46:53,342 You couldn't imagine him stirring the masses 451 00:46:53,661 --> 00:46:58,977 He seemed very natural, straightforward, modest and friendly 452 00:46:59,281 --> 00:47:06,591 When I'd seen his face on posters, I'd thought him decidedly ugly 453 00:47:06,744 --> 00:47:10,993 But when I met him personally, that all disappeared 454 00:47:11,257 --> 00:47:15,721 You just didn't notice his features and the mustache 455 00:47:16,036 --> 00:47:18,973 He radiated something very powerful 456 00:47:19,281 --> 00:47:22,958 You forgot all the rest 457 00:47:23,254 --> 00:47:27,033 But as a man he did not interest me at all 458 00:47:27,278 --> 00:47:31,888 You sensed he had a kind of demonic power of suggestion? 459 00:47:32,206 --> 00:47:35,060 Yes, at the public meeting... 460 00:47:35,488 --> 00:47:38,881 and even more strongly when I met him 461 00:47:39,014 --> 00:47:43,148 He radiated something which had a kind of hypnotic effect 462 00:47:43,417 --> 00:47:46,577 That frightened me a little 463 00:47:46,845 --> 00:47:51,706 I didn't want to lose my own will and my freedom 464 00:47:51,971 --> 00:47:54,439 I already felt... 465 00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:59,704 I had to avoid this atmosphere at all costs 466 00:48:00,021 --> 00:48:03,151 It would paralyse one's free will 467 00:48:03,307 --> 00:48:08,837 What did you make of his political programme? 468 00:48:09,136 --> 00:48:12,035 I knew nothing about it... 469 00:48:12,255 --> 00:48:17,357 and had no time to find out because I was off to Greenland 470 00:48:22,097 --> 00:48:26,147 She was soon being typecast. In this big Hollywood production, 471 00:48:26,148 --> 00:48:30,484 Leni Riefenstahl once again plays the part of the beautiful daredevil 472 00:48:30,761 --> 00:48:33,164 The plucky rescue pilot in the Arctic 473 00:48:50,624 --> 00:48:54,690 She embodied an ideal which Hitler was cleverly to exploit 474 00:48:55,613 --> 00:48:58,269 Incidentally, he said then: 475 00:48:58,572 --> 00:49:03,749 "When we come to power, you must make my films" 476 00:49:03,904 --> 00:49:08,587 I certainly didn't take him seriously. I said: 477 00:49:08,881 --> 00:49:14,166 "I can only do what I enjoy. I'm an actress, I want nice parts to play" 478 00:49:15,736 --> 00:49:20,026 It is precisely these roles which created the image of Riefenstahl 479 00:49:20,117 --> 00:49:23,981 that Hitler so admired, a heroic superwoman, 480 00:49:24,286 --> 00:49:28,183 the queen of the mountains, enthroned high among the peaks, 481 00:49:29,276 --> 00:49:34,766 beyond the reach of the masses, an idol, a myth larger than life 482 00:49:35,714 --> 00:49:40,038 In other words, exactly what Hitler himself so much wanted to be 483 00:49:40,350 --> 00:49:44,144 but so conspicuously lacked the artistic tinge to achieve 484 00:49:46,404 --> 00:49:51,737 Then Hitler said, "Well, when you're older and more mature... 485 00:49:52,041 --> 00:49:55,049 "maybe you'll understand my ideas" 486 00:49:55,348 --> 00:49:57,125 I was ignorant then 487 00:49:59,676 --> 00:50:04,046 In January 1933, Hitler became Reich's Chancellor 488 00:50:04,078 --> 00:50:05,883 with immediate consequences 489 00:50:11,101 --> 00:50:13,448 German men and women... 490 00:50:14,662 --> 00:50:19,923 the age of pettifogging Jewish intellectualism... 491 00:50:20,350 --> 00:50:22,461 is at an end 492 00:50:23,227 --> 00:50:26,844 The breakthrough of the German revolution... 493 00:50:26,995 --> 00:50:30,623 had cleared the path ahead for Germany 494 00:50:30,964 --> 00:50:35,076 I consign all that is un-German to the flames 495 00:50:35,975 --> 00:50:39,174 I consign to the fire the writings... 496 00:50:39,447 --> 00:50:41,002 of Heinrich Mann... 497 00:50:41,169 --> 00:50:42,679 Ernst Glaeser... 498 00:50:43,002 --> 00:50:44,650 {\a8}and Erich Kästner 499 00:50:44,651 --> 00:50:47,754 As ever, at the crucial time, Leni Riefenstahl was absent 500 00:50:44,924 --> 00:50:48,032 {\a8}Down with time-servers and political traitors 501 00:50:48,033 --> 00:50:49,747 filming in the Swiss Alps 502 00:50:49,748 --> 00:50:54,911 I heard nothing about the book-burning. We hadn't television then 503 00:50:55,112 --> 00:50:58,587 I learnt about it on my return... 504 00:50:58,873 --> 00:51:03,032 and particularly about friends of mine... 505 00:51:03,332 --> 00:51:04,744 Who had emigrated? 506 00:51:04,891 --> 00:51:07,796 I found their letters in my post 507 00:51:08,097 --> 00:51:12,369 They wrote to me and that really upset me 508 00:51:19,095 --> 00:51:22,791 And when I was summoned... 509 00:51:23,090 --> 00:51:28,532 to see Hitler, I immediately spoke to him about it 510 00:51:28,816 --> 00:51:33,669 His face darkened suddenly and he said: 511 00:51:33,969 --> 00:51:38,913 "I must ask you, Fräulein, not to speak to me on this matter" 512 00:51:39,212 --> 00:51:41,517 You did try to raise the subject? 513 00:51:41,809 --> 00:51:46,224 Immediately. It was the first thing I tried... 514 00:51:46,524 --> 00:51:49,370 and realised it wasn't possible 515 00:51:49,636 --> 00:51:55,337 He immediately called his adjutant and had me ushered out 516 00:51:55,635 --> 00:51:58,574 He wouldn't talk to me about it 517 00:51:59,913 --> 00:52:03,320 Clearly, something in Germany had fundamentally changed 518 00:52:04,141 --> 00:52:07,759 In the brutal boycott of Jewish shops gave her no cause to doubt 519 00:52:08,455 --> 00:52:12,078 How could she have overlooked what she saw around her in Germany? 520 00:52:13,075 --> 00:52:17,058 My friends who'd emigrated... 521 00:52:17,331 --> 00:52:20,974 and Manfred Georg in particular... 522 00:52:21,269 --> 00:52:24,417 urged me to stay and stick it out 523 00:52:24,689 --> 00:52:29,299 By staying, we could prevent the spread of anti-semitism 524 00:52:29,539 --> 00:52:32,614 We were to be a bulwark against it 525 00:52:36,085 --> 00:52:39,654 And we all thought it was just electioneering... 526 00:52:39,894 --> 00:52:43,293 a temporary thing that would die down 527 00:52:43,620 --> 00:52:46,542 We didn't foresee the danger 528 00:52:48,014 --> 00:52:51,758 Didn't 'Mein Kampf' open your eyes... 529 00:52:52,048 --> 00:52:54,003 to Hitler's aims? 530 00:52:54,133 --> 00:52:55,986 It was very interesting 531 00:52:56,259 --> 00:53:00,678 I hadn't read it all - just a few chapters 532 00:53:00,810 --> 00:53:04,910 Some things in it appealed to me very much 533 00:53:05,030 --> 00:53:08,392 Everything that dealt with social problems 534 00:53:08,691 --> 00:53:14,381 I think that was why Hitler had so many supporters then 535 00:53:14,625 --> 00:53:17,579 Six million unemployed, the poverty... 536 00:53:17,994 --> 00:53:23,113 Obviously I didn't like his racial theories 537 00:53:23,368 --> 00:53:29,405 I made notes in the book which later happened to fall into Hitler's hands 538 00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:35,410 I had written 'good' or 'bad', 'not good' etc. So I had made my choices 539 00:53:35,675 --> 00:53:39,721 - How did he react to this critique? - He laughed 540 00:53:40,425 --> 00:53:42,587 {\a8}Ladies and gentlemen 541 00:53:42,588 --> 00:53:46,015 Goebbels' diaries for the year 1933 give the distinct impression that 542 00:53:46,016 --> 00:53:49,014 {\a8}With one bold and magnificent stroke... 543 00:53:46,015 --> 00:53:50,699 Riefenstahl was on good terms socially with both Hitler and Goebbels 544 00:53:50,700 --> 00:53:53,252 {\a8}we've put our enemies to flight 545 00:53:53,838 --> 00:53:57,489 What was your relationship with the Propaganda Minister, Goebbels? 546 00:53:57,757 --> 00:54:00,693 The worst you can ever imagine 547 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,160 We met before they came to power 548 00:54:04,330 --> 00:54:10,618 It was in the lift at the Hotel Kaiserhof. We were both going up 549 00:54:11,079 --> 00:54:14,964 He pursued me and was determined to have me 550 00:54:15,104 --> 00:54:18,697 He wanted me as his mistress and so on 551 00:54:18,842 --> 00:54:22,069 But he was not my type at all 552 00:54:22,222 --> 00:54:25,833 I felt nothing for him 553 00:54:25,982 --> 00:54:32,367 He never forgave me for rejecting him. Later it became worse 554 00:54:32,657 --> 00:54:35,686 I can say he was almost an enemy 555 00:54:35,990 --> 00:54:41,062 Reading Goebbels' diaries for 1933, we get the impression... 556 00:54:41,195 --> 00:54:44,538 you were on visiting terms with him and Hitler 557 00:54:44,966 --> 00:54:49,720 You must show me these entries. I've never read them 558 00:54:49,872 --> 00:54:54,717 I've never read anything saying I was on visiting terms. It's sheer fantasy 559 00:54:55,980 --> 00:55:00,890 Saw Leni Riefenstahl this afternoon, suggested a film about Hitler to her 560 00:55:01,208 --> 00:55:02,548 She was enthusiastic 561 00:55:03,218 --> 00:55:06,530 In the evening to Madam Butterfly with Magda and Leni 562 00:55:07,941 --> 00:55:13,039 At the start of 1933 I'd never visited him. He never said I had 563 00:55:13,353 --> 00:55:15,232 Drove back with Hitler in the evening 564 00:55:15,501 --> 00:55:20,563 Later at home, Philipp von Hessen and Leni Riefenstahl called 'very nice' 565 00:55:21,115 --> 00:55:22,533 I never went there 566 00:55:22,834 --> 00:55:26,678 Nor to Schwanenwerder, where everyone went 567 00:55:26,966 --> 00:55:30,059 I wasn't even invited. Not once 568 00:55:30,733 --> 00:55:34,782 Saw a film with Hitler starring Hans Albers, terrible rubbish 569 00:55:35,179 --> 00:55:39,452 Gerda, Maria and Leni Riefenstahl were there. Three beautiful women 570 00:55:39,697 --> 00:55:44,431 This makes me so angry. What you say is incredible 571 00:55:44,745 --> 00:55:45,945 Let me show you 572 00:55:46,184 --> 00:55:50,792 That I was on social terms... there's nothing about that in the diaries... 573 00:55:51,084 --> 00:55:53,387 It's simply not true. Herr Müller 574 00:55:53,656 --> 00:55:59,956 OK, show me where it says I was in and out of their houses, socially 575 00:56:00,743 --> 00:56:06,973 What to believe? The diaries of Goebbels or the memories of last surviving witness 576 00:56:09,051 --> 00:56:12,009 Goebbels was a master of the lie 577 00:56:15,072 --> 00:56:20,313 Nuremberg, the imperial castle of the Holy Roman Emperors, the Kaiserberg 578 00:56:20,954 --> 00:56:23,295 A place special significance for Hitler 579 00:56:24,281 --> 00:56:28,753 In his imagination, Hitler saw himself in the tradition of the German Emperors 580 00:56:28,906 --> 00:56:34,565 And like them based his ideal of the Führer on an image of the Roman Caesers 581 00:56:35,591 --> 00:56:39,866 That's why the congresses of the Nazi party were organized in Nuremberg 582 00:56:40,909 --> 00:56:43,600 Today, very little remains of the Nazi buildings, 583 00:56:44,068 --> 00:56:48,496 the popular enthusiasm for the big courage is no longer comprehensible 584 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:56,103 This is where the great march pasts took place involving as many as a hundred thousand men 585 00:57:13,161 --> 00:57:18,870 Riefenstahl's film of the 1934 Party Congress was the turning point in her life 586 00:57:19,417 --> 00:57:20,978 It changed everything 587 00:57:23,325 --> 00:57:28,343 {\a8}38,000 workers on parade for the ceremony 588 00:57:25,028 --> 00:57:27,648 Later Congresses were filmed by other directors 589 00:57:27,864 --> 00:57:29,676 But they've long been forgotten 590 00:57:46,736 --> 00:57:50,410 The first film was to have been the one and only 591 00:57:50,747 --> 00:57:54,450 Never two or three. Just the one Party Congress film 592 00:57:54,652 --> 00:58:00,251 But the first one in 1933 was never completed 593 00:58:00,551 --> 00:58:06,848 We only filmed a few metres before we were interrupted 594 00:58:07,317 --> 00:58:13,674 The Party didn't want us to make the film despite Hitler's commission 595 00:58:14,032 --> 00:58:15,430 It was boycotted 596 00:58:19,039 --> 00:58:23,928 Until recently, Riefenstahl's first film of the Nazi Congresses in Nuremberg, 597 00:58:24,038 --> 00:58:26,969 Victory of Faith, was thought to have been lost 598 00:58:27,323 --> 00:58:30,122 Many doubted that it was ever actually been made 599 00:58:34,605 --> 00:58:40,012 Grotesque as it may sound, the Party who were supposed to make the film... 600 00:58:40,311 --> 00:58:42,972 didn't want me to make it 601 00:58:43,161 --> 00:58:47,735 But you were involved in the other film? You brought that up yourself 602 00:58:48,018 --> 00:58:52,095 I know, but it's very hard to keep them apart 603 00:58:52,365 --> 00:58:54,040 We can cut it out 604 00:58:54,201 --> 00:58:56,720 It's hard to keep it separate 605 00:58:57,107 --> 00:59:01,172 I'm happy to talk about it but not in this bloody light 606 00:59:05,521 --> 00:59:08,632 Reporting to the Führer 607 00:59:08,887 --> 00:59:14,169 {\a8}100,000 Storm-Troopers, Stahlhelm... 608 00:59:10,447 --> 00:59:12,976 In those days, Hitler and Ernst Röhm 609 00:59:13,344 --> 00:59:15,866 were still the partners in the struggle for power 610 00:59:15,867 --> 00:59:19,622 {\a8}and SS on parade before the Führer 611 00:59:24,482 --> 00:59:26,393 Heil, SA 612 00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:33,578 You talked about the first film and the second. You can't do that 613 00:59:33,745 --> 00:59:39,323 I have to say what the first film is. You can't talk about both at once 614 00:59:39,633 --> 00:59:42,919 - You mentioned the second film - And you the first 615 00:59:43,083 --> 00:59:47,488 - That's the one I want to discuss - Not me. I hardly did anything on it 616 00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:54,023 With its amateury shots of Hitler, and rather elementary camera angles 617 00:59:54,285 --> 00:59:59,928 Victory of Faith is perhaps understandably a film Riefenstahl is very reluctant to talk about 618 01:00:09,235 --> 01:00:13,137 To this day, she is annoyed about the conditions in which she had to film 619 01:00:13,535 --> 01:00:16,877 and which made it impossible for her to achieve her usual perfection 620 01:00:22,569 --> 01:00:26,884 No, the first one wasn't a proper Party Congress film 621 01:00:27,155 --> 01:00:32,421 It was just a few shots I put together, because Hitler wanted it 622 01:00:32,549 --> 01:00:35,722 It has nothing to do with my technique 623 01:00:36,037 --> 01:00:39,181 You can only discuss technique in 'Triumph of the Will' 624 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:41,564 In the first film there was no technique? 625 01:00:41,836 --> 01:00:46,521 No, we couldn't prepare. When I arrived the Congress was in progress 626 01:00:46,808 --> 01:00:51,977 Let me explain why. My dear Herr Müller, I could do nothing 627 01:00:52,139 --> 01:00:57,344 The party forbade it. Hitler and Goebbels had had a row 628 01:01:30,042 --> 01:01:32,813 If you mention the first film... 629 01:01:33,129 --> 01:01:36,746 I must say why I couldn't use my techniques 630 01:01:37,024 --> 01:01:37,999 Go ahead 631 01:01:38,238 --> 01:01:41,726 But, my God, it's too important to discuss here! 632 01:01:43,222 --> 01:01:47,736 Not only was the camera work shoddy, but the organization of the event itself 633 01:01:48,026 --> 01:01:50,026 seemed uncharacteristically chaotic 634 01:01:50,555 --> 01:01:54,429 The Nazis have not yet learned how to march like Nazis 635 01:02:14,966 --> 01:02:19,777 It is quite obvious that both Hitler and Riefenstahl were still trying to get it right 636 01:02:21,237 --> 01:02:24,018 The first wasn't a proper film 637 01:02:24,271 --> 01:02:30,190 Just a few scenes of them running around here, which we put together 638 01:02:30,362 --> 01:02:32,399 Didn't you edit it yourself? 639 01:02:32,668 --> 01:02:37,777 Yes I did. I had to put it together but I had scarcely any material 640 01:02:38,436 --> 01:02:39,823 {\a8}A society... 641 01:02:39,824 --> 01:02:43,218 However some sequences already have the characteristic Riefenstahl touch 642 01:02:43,219 --> 01:02:44,525 {\a8}without regard... 643 01:02:45,532 --> 01:02:49,484 to origin, class... 644 01:02:50,321 --> 01:02:55,780 profession, wealth or education 645 01:02:56,749 --> 01:02:58,330 A society... 646 01:02:58,599 --> 01:03:04,872 which feels itself bound together, united... 647 01:03:07,081 --> 01:03:12,072 {\a8}in one great faith and one great purpose 648 01:03:08,429 --> 01:03:12,296 In places like this, the mark of Riefenstahl was unmistakable 649 01:03:12,297 --> 01:03:13,550 {\a8}Not for position... 650 01:03:13,551 --> 01:03:16,818 A dramatic intensity humped up by the composition and the editing 651 01:03:14,432 --> 01:03:16,758 {\a8}and not for party 652 01:03:16,922 --> 01:03:18,866 Not for profession... 653 01:03:19,011 --> 01:03:21,563 and not for class... 654 01:03:22,124 --> 01:03:26,366 but united in our one Germany 655 01:03:26,517 --> 01:03:28,343 Your clients were satisfied? 656 01:03:28,503 --> 01:03:35,004 They'd have been happy with any old newsreel provided it showed swastikas 657 01:03:35,212 --> 01:03:40,540 Nevertheless the film had to be edited. It became a short 658 01:03:40,893 --> 01:03:46,873 It was shown in some cinema or other, I forget where 659 01:03:47,129 --> 01:03:50,292 Hitler and the others liked it 660 01:03:50,442 --> 01:03:54,912 It was interesting but they weren't satisfied 661 01:03:55,142 --> 01:03:58,510 Hitler insisted I make another film the following year 662 01:03:58,783 --> 01:04:00,345 Were you dissatisfied too? 663 01:04:00,658 --> 01:04:04,637 To me it wasn't a proper film. Just some shots 664 01:04:06,795 --> 01:04:11,382 Again and again one can see clearly that Hitler was not yet in sole command 665 01:04:12,224 --> 01:04:14,822 Beside him, and on the same level stands his 666 01:04:14,823 --> 01:04:17,469 storm trooper commander, Ernst Röhm 667 01:04:18,024 --> 01:04:20,974 Shortly afterwards, Hitler had him assassinated 668 01:04:50,870 --> 01:04:53,585 An attempt by the the party to boycott her filming angered 669 01:04:53,627 --> 01:04:57,747 angered Riefenstahl so much that she immediately complained to Hitler 670 01:05:03,256 --> 01:05:06,499 I explained exactly what the problem was 671 01:05:06,803 --> 01:05:13,170 Goebbels was present, and you can imagine what happened next 672 01:05:13,769 --> 01:05:17,373 Goebbels went white as a sheet 673 01:05:17,512 --> 01:05:22,450 Hitler was furious, beside himself. He said: 674 01:05:22,762 --> 01:05:27,357 "This must never happen again. You will make the film next year" 675 01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:30,823 I said I can't. I'll never do another one" 676 01:05:31,124 --> 01:05:33,696 I'd made up my mind not to 677 01:05:33,968 --> 01:05:37,043 I ran out in floods of tears... 678 01:05:37,345 --> 01:05:42,640 and soon after I got home, there was a phone call to say... 679 01:05:42,905 --> 01:05:45,630 I had to go and see Goebbels 680 01:05:45,918 --> 01:05:51,227 It was the day Goebbels went to Geneva... 681 01:05:51,399 --> 01:05:56,435 to announce that Germany was leaving the League of Nations 682 01:05:56,727 --> 01:05:58,175 That's why I remember 683 01:05:58,563 --> 01:06:04,906 I got to his office in the Propaganda Ministry and he screamed at me: 684 01:06:07,048 --> 01:06:11,518 "If you were a man and not a woman... 685 01:06:11,771 --> 01:06:14,247 "I'd throw you downstairs 686 01:06:21,576 --> 01:06:27,879 "You're a dangerous woman. Never let me set eyes on you again" 687 01:06:28,029 --> 01:06:30,768 That's how it ended 688 01:06:31,032 --> 01:06:35,835 And everything that came later resulted from this hate 689 01:06:36,296 --> 01:06:40,999 In 1934, Riefenstahl was back filming in Nuremberg 690 01:06:41,326 --> 01:06:44,871 This time she was given a free hand, a triumph of her own will, 691 01:06:44,872 --> 01:06:46,451 {\a8}TRIUMPH OF THE WILL 692 01:06:44,871 --> 01:06:46,492 or a pact with the devil 693 01:06:46,566 --> 01:06:49,110 Today it's easy to think that 694 01:06:49,379 --> 01:06:55,712 Now that we know all the terrible things he did and got others to do... 695 01:06:55,971 --> 01:07:01,222 then clearly it was a pact with the Devil 696 01:07:01,523 --> 01:07:03,135 But we didn't know then 697 01:07:03,409 --> 01:07:09,191 Hitler probably was schizophrenic, both a devil... 698 01:07:09,338 --> 01:07:14,935 and its opposite, but we could only see one side of him 699 01:07:15,086 --> 01:07:18,431 Not that terrible, dangerous side 700 01:07:36,432 --> 01:07:39,557 I just wanted to act 701 01:07:39,869 --> 01:07:43,210 I didn't want to take on this terrible workload 702 01:07:43,369 --> 01:07:48,978 I wasn't against it for political reasons. Not at all 703 01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,664 I just wanted to do something different 704 01:07:53,096 --> 01:07:55,796 But Hitler's wish was his command 705 01:07:56,098 --> 01:08:02,153 It would have been difficult if not impossible to get out of it 706 01:08:02,373 --> 01:08:08,699 I made one last attempt by driving to Nuremberg where I knew Hitler was 707 01:08:08,837 --> 01:08:14,394 I saw him at a meeting with Speer and others, and he had the plans 708 01:08:14,698 --> 01:08:15,898 He said: 709 01:08:16,065 --> 01:08:21,820 "Fräulein Riefenstahl, give me six days of your life, just six days 710 01:08:22,626 --> 01:08:28,835 "I want this film to be made by an artist and not a Party film-director" 711 01:08:30,144 --> 01:08:32,245 "I'll make it", I said... 712 01:08:32,538 --> 01:08:39,007 "if you promise me I'll never have to make another film for the Reich... 713 01:08:39,155 --> 01:08:42,242 "for you or the Party" 714 01:08:56,214 --> 01:09:01,164 At vast expense, Riefenstahl made 'Triumph of the Will', which to this day 715 01:09:01,165 --> 01:09:06,204 is regarded by film historians as the best propaganda film of all time 716 01:09:06,989 --> 01:09:10,411 Riefenstahl has always maintained that the making of this film 717 01:09:10,412 --> 01:09:14,276 was just a job, which she performed to perfection 718 01:09:18,115 --> 01:09:23,450 When I began my documentary... 719 01:09:23,706 --> 01:09:30,069 I wondered what I could do to make it better than the newsreels 720 01:09:30,388 --> 01:09:36,831 In 1934, when I made 'Triumph of the Will'... 721 01:09:37,686 --> 01:09:43,381 newsreels were very static, no movement, no travelling shots 722 01:09:43,635 --> 01:09:49,210 I thought the shots should be made mobile and thus more interesting 723 01:09:49,492 --> 01:09:54,199 That's why my crew began trying to shoot on roller-skates 724 01:09:54,338 --> 01:09:57,478 But above all I needed lots of different... 725 01:09:57,767 --> 01:09:59,338 camera positions 726 01:11:07,253 --> 01:11:11,769 It doesn't look like a documentary, more like an art film 727 01:11:11,935 --> 01:11:14,720 How did you achieve this artistic intensity? 728 01:11:15,033 --> 01:11:20,886 It's a feeling for links between images 729 01:11:21,046 --> 01:11:24,587 A connection between one picture and the next... 730 01:11:24,934 --> 01:11:30,639 or from one visual colour-range, say from grey tones, to another 731 01:11:30,951 --> 01:11:34,756 It's like a musical composition 732 01:11:35,060 --> 01:11:37,387 It's very important... 733 01:11:37,677 --> 01:11:43,532 to put climax at the right point in a film... 734 01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:47,046 so that there's a continuous build-up 735 01:12:11,095 --> 01:12:13,686 We stand here 736 01:12:14,650 --> 01:12:17,311 We stand at the ready... 737 01:12:17,587 --> 01:12:21,689 to take Germany into the new age 738 01:12:21,966 --> 01:12:23,365 Germany 739 01:12:23,695 --> 01:12:27,515 I tried a hundred different ways at the editing stage 740 01:12:27,763 --> 01:12:30,662 It took me over five months 741 01:12:30,811 --> 01:12:36,545 First I was working 12 hours a day, then 14, 18... 742 01:12:36,688 --> 01:12:39,074 and in the end 20 743 01:12:39,364 --> 01:12:44,860 That meant I couldn't do anything but sit at my editing-suite... 744 01:12:45,122 --> 01:12:49,740 trying to find ways to avoid jumps... 745 01:12:49,848 --> 01:12:53,762 so it would all flow in an interesting way 746 01:12:54,193 --> 01:12:57,004 I tried hundreds of ways 747 01:12:57,289 --> 01:12:59,209 Comrade, where are you from? 748 01:13:01,328 --> 01:13:02,690 From Friesland 749 01:13:03,874 --> 01:13:05,449 And you? 750 01:13:05,583 --> 01:13:07,587 - From Bavaria - And you? 751 01:13:08,787 --> 01:13:10,571 From Kaiserstuhl 752 01:13:10,854 --> 01:13:12,054 And you? 753 01:13:12,123 --> 01:13:13,468 From Pomerania 754 01:13:13,758 --> 01:13:15,521 And from Königsberg 755 01:13:15,670 --> 01:13:16,966 From Silesia 756 01:13:17,226 --> 01:13:19,334 From the North Sea coast 757 01:13:19,596 --> 01:13:21,544 From Black Forest 758 01:13:21,817 --> 01:13:23,022 From Dresden 759 01:13:23,444 --> 01:13:26,020 - From the Danube - From the Rhine 760 01:13:26,172 --> 01:13:28,149 And from the Saar 761 01:13:28,293 --> 01:13:29,493 One people... 762 01:13:30,733 --> 01:13:33,014 one Führer, one Reich 763 01:13:34,649 --> 01:13:35,967 Germany 764 01:13:36,775 --> 01:13:40,486 This artistic depth you mention... 765 01:13:40,637 --> 01:13:45,904 brought accusations against you later of glorifying the Nazis 766 01:13:46,526 --> 01:13:53,012 But those people should have tried making the film themselves 767 01:13:54,046 --> 01:13:58,778 Either one makes a newsreel and those were made... 768 01:13:59,070 --> 01:14:02,988 or one can try to make the material into a film... 769 01:14:03,133 --> 01:14:07,130 that's more interesting - but without posed shots 770 01:14:08,664 --> 01:14:10,648 In Flanders... 771 01:14:12,501 --> 01:14:14,097 in the west... 772 01:14:14,268 --> 01:14:16,211 in the east... 773 01:14:16,382 --> 01:14:18,247 in the south... 774 01:14:19,994 --> 01:14:25,648 on land and water and in the skies... 775 01:14:28,834 --> 01:14:34,154 the Red menace and forces of reaction have been brought down 776 01:14:37,894 --> 01:14:41,182 Did you notice that in this film... 777 01:14:41,332 --> 01:14:47,365 there was no commentary in the normal sense of the word? 778 01:14:47,533 --> 01:14:51,857 There's no commentator to explain everything 779 01:14:52,181 --> 01:14:54,929 That's one way it differs... 780 01:14:55,315 --> 01:14:59,730 from a documentary and a propaganda film 781 01:14:59,860 --> 01:15:05,324 If it were propaganda, as many say, there'd be a commentator... 782 01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:10,577 to explain the significance and value of the occasion 783 01:15:10,865 --> 01:15:12,201 This wasn't the case 784 01:15:13,486 --> 01:15:15,661 The looming close-ups of Hitler in this film 785 01:15:15,662 --> 01:15:18,542 were the first that the German people had ever seen 786 01:15:32,069 --> 01:15:37,494 It wasn't hard because Hitler never let himself be distracted 787 01:15:37,792 --> 01:15:40,167 You could dance round him all you liked 788 01:15:40,445 --> 01:15:42,387 Didn't you build a track round him? 789 01:15:42,742 --> 01:15:48,590 Yes, that was one idea. I had to film 3 or 4 of Hitler's speeches 790 01:15:48,874 --> 01:15:54,767 How could I make each one different and avoid repetition? 791 01:15:54,894 --> 01:16:01,323 I thought, for one of the speeches, of laying a circular track round him 792 01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:06,839 The speech would be more interesting than if shot from a fixed point 793 01:16:07,689 --> 01:16:11,788 We want a final end to class differences 794 01:16:11,934 --> 01:16:17,022 You must not let them develop among you 795 01:16:17,622 --> 01:16:21,485 We want one day to see one Reich 796 01:16:21,772 --> 01:16:25,775 You must make yourselves fit for it 797 01:16:26,056 --> 01:16:30,083 We want this people one day to be obedient... 798 01:16:30,369 --> 01:16:33,557 so you must learn obedience 799 01:16:33,852 --> 01:16:40,153 We want our people to be peace-loving but also brave... 800 01:16:40,446 --> 01:16:43,028 so you must be peaceable 801 01:16:54,459 --> 01:16:56,783 You see that lift there? 802 01:16:58,290 --> 01:17:03,035 We had such difficulty getting permission for that. I'll run it back 803 01:17:03,336 --> 01:17:05,039 We got permission... 804 01:17:05,301 --> 01:17:10,393 to build a tiny camera lift into the flag-poles 805 01:17:10,937 --> 01:17:14,815 The effect was very good 806 01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,074 What's striking is the contrast... 807 01:17:23,337 --> 01:17:28,030 between the huge crowds and one individual - Hitler 808 01:17:28,315 --> 01:17:30,060 Is that a conscious technique? 809 01:17:30,354 --> 01:17:35,081 There was nothing else. Just Hitler and the people 810 01:18:00,308 --> 01:18:05,168 Wasn't it difficult since you had no idea about politics... 811 01:18:05,488 --> 01:18:07,750 to edit political speeches? 812 01:18:08,041 --> 01:18:11,997 That has nothing to do with politics. It's a technical matter 813 01:18:12,289 --> 01:18:16,033 If a 2-hour speech, regardless of it content... 814 01:18:16,168 --> 01:18:22,379 trees or fish or politics - needs cutting down to 5 minutes... 815 01:18:22,683 --> 01:18:26,757 any editor will take out everything he can 816 01:18:27,026 --> 01:18:31,195 The speech must have a beginning and an end... 817 01:18:31,558 --> 01:18:36,371 and two or three important sentences in the middle 818 01:18:36,666 --> 01:18:41,977 Everything else has to go. You need a real beginning, an end... 819 01:18:42,217 --> 01:18:47,602 and in the middle something which thrills the people 820 01:18:47,886 --> 01:18:51,538 Any editor can do that. It's not a problem 821 01:18:51,797 --> 01:18:53,837 You were guided by the applause? 822 01:18:53,988 --> 01:18:56,563 Yes, the effect, people's expressions 823 01:18:56,831 --> 01:18:58,449 If you're an editor... 824 01:18:58,729 --> 01:19:04,269 and you can cut out Hitler wiping his nose or coughing... 825 01:19:04,531 --> 01:19:10,996 you drop that and use the shots where his expression is more interesting 826 01:19:11,161 --> 01:19:16,169 Of course you do. An editor must decide which shots work best 827 01:19:16,454 --> 01:19:21,950 That isn't politics. Anyway, a speech will only have one theme 828 01:19:22,225 --> 01:19:24,915 We live by one great commandment... 829 01:19:25,744 --> 01:19:30,113 and this was not given us... 830 01:19:30,406 --> 01:19:32,536 by any earthly authority 831 01:19:32,682 --> 01:19:35,066 It was given us by God... 832 01:19:35,324 --> 01:19:37,848 who created our people 833 01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:48,112 These Congresses were so well staged, and still seem so today 834 01:19:48,372 --> 01:19:52,003 Did you direct them or who planned them? 835 01:19:52,417 --> 01:19:55,792 Don't make me laugh. Why should I be involved? 836 01:19:56,025 --> 01:20:00,000 I wasn't even a Party member, let alone an organiser 837 01:20:00,270 --> 01:20:03,270 What makes you think I was involved? 838 01:20:03,575 --> 01:20:07,683 They were great productions. Who dreamed them up? 839 01:20:07,919 --> 01:20:10,372 - Hitler and Speer - All by themselves? 840 01:20:10,582 --> 01:20:16,871 Yes. I had nothing to do with it. I knew nothing. I'd no idea about it 841 01:20:17,201 --> 01:20:20,911 I just observed and tried to film it well 842 01:20:21,156 --> 01:20:26,032 The idea that I helped to plan it is downright absurd 843 01:20:39,125 --> 01:20:43,074 Those crowd scenes look like something out of a Wagner opera 844 01:20:43,227 --> 01:20:46,503 You see such scenes in Moscow and Peking 845 01:20:46,785 --> 01:20:52,353 You saw those huge parades a few months ago... 846 01:20:52,510 --> 01:20:56,816 in Peking and in Korea. You see them everywhere 847 01:20:56,963 --> 01:20:59,432 Those parades were vast 848 01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:03,509 Far more grandiose than in 'Triumph of the Will' 849 01:21:03,819 --> 01:21:07,601 You saw weapons and missiles going past 850 01:21:07,752 --> 01:21:13,382 Platform decorated with hundreds of red flags. All on a huge scale 851 01:22:43,214 --> 01:22:48,005 It had to be filmed the way an artist, not a politician, sees it 852 01:22:48,328 --> 01:22:54,383 Hitler didn't want a political film. He wanted an artistic film 853 01:22:54,542 --> 01:22:58,856 That's what he got. I'd no idea I could do it 854 01:22:59,108 --> 01:23:02,777 My not wanting to make the film had nothing to do with politics 855 01:23:03,048 --> 01:23:08,471 I just lacked confidence. It seemed an insoluble task 856 01:23:08,798 --> 01:23:13,855 Still, you were later accused of seducing people with this film 857 01:23:14,004 --> 01:23:18,361 OK, a few idiots say that 858 01:23:18,514 --> 01:23:21,714 All I can say is it's thoroughly stupid 859 01:23:22,007 --> 01:23:26,798 It would mean that I staged it, that I was Hitler himself... 860 01:23:26,998 --> 01:23:30,772 and I'd made all these people pose for me 861 01:24:14,098 --> 01:24:18,206 Didn't a film-maker have terrific public influence... 862 01:24:18,357 --> 01:24:21,190 in the days before radio and television? 863 01:24:21,573 --> 01:24:25,168 Doesn't that artist have a special responsibility? 864 01:24:25,461 --> 01:24:27,275 What was my responsibility? 865 01:24:27,649 --> 01:24:31,834 By that time 90% of the people were in favour of Hitler 866 01:24:31,967 --> 01:24:37,344 Should I have been a resistance fighter? There were a very few of those 867 01:24:37,622 --> 01:24:40,945 Should I have been one of them? 868 01:24:41,174 --> 01:24:44,240 No, since you say politics didn't interest you... 869 01:24:44,533 --> 01:24:49,124 Not at all. To me the film wasn't about politics, it was an event 870 01:24:49,376 --> 01:24:54,798 I'd have made exactly the same film in Moscow, if the need arose... 871 01:24:54,959 --> 01:24:57,140 though I'd have preferred not 872 01:24:57,389 --> 01:25:01,716 Or in America, if something of the sort had taken place there 873 01:25:02,339 --> 01:25:08,720 I shot the subject-matter as well as I could and shaped it into a film 874 01:25:09,618 --> 01:25:15,184 Now, whether it was about politics or about vegetables or fruit... 875 01:25:15,463 --> 01:25:19,592 I couldn't give a damn. I don't get it 876 01:25:19,995 --> 01:25:21,654 If I'd been political... 877 01:25:21,807 --> 01:25:26,659 I'd have joined the Party and I would have been interested 878 01:25:26,889 --> 01:25:33,340 - I didn't mean it like that - I never went to any meetings 879 01:25:33,630 --> 01:25:39,128 I turned down all offers to make other political films 880 01:25:39,523 --> 01:25:41,121 I never made a single one 881 01:25:41,277 --> 01:25:43,079 My question is this 882 01:25:43,399 --> 01:25:47,471 If one works in the media, mustn't one interest oneself in politics? 883 01:25:47,749 --> 01:25:53,014 Nowadays, perhaps, but not then. And anyway, who'd have done it? 884 01:25:53,308 --> 01:25:55,120 Everyone was behind Hitler 885 01:26:28,847 --> 01:26:31,322 If you were an artist today... 886 01:26:31,597 --> 01:26:36,805 what would you feel your political responsibility to be? 887 01:26:37,065 --> 01:26:43,427 The artist should maybe ask himself what will be done with his creation 888 01:26:43,677 --> 01:26:47,120 How are we to judge artists... 889 01:26:47,271 --> 01:26:53,657 who, for example, made films during the Stalin period? 890 01:26:53,878 --> 01:26:57,844 Like Eisenstein or Pudovkin. What should we say... 891 01:26:58,115 --> 01:27:03,263 about those who made films - very good ones - in the GDR? 892 01:27:03,549 --> 01:27:09,023 What should we say about artists who made good films in the Third Reich? 893 01:27:09,283 --> 01:27:15,430 What does political responsibility mean? And to whom is one responsible? 894 01:27:15,726 --> 01:27:19,186 Take politics today. How can you tell... 895 01:27:19,344 --> 01:27:22,777 who can assure us the right kind of future? 896 01:27:23,156 --> 01:27:25,580 It's our desire and intention... 897 01:27:25,855 --> 01:27:28,269 that this Reich shall exist... 898 01:27:28,575 --> 01:27:30,728 for thousands of years to come 899 01:27:30,993 --> 01:27:32,330 We can be happy... 900 01:27:32,614 --> 01:27:38,718 in the knowledge that this future belongs wholly to us 901 01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:54,655 There's another thing I want to say 902 01:27:54,914 --> 01:28:00,499 If an artist dedicates himself totally to his work... 903 01:28:00,832 --> 01:28:03,208 he cannot think politically 904 01:28:03,893 --> 01:28:08,075 That's true of practically every artist in the past... 905 01:28:08,350 --> 01:28:11,851 who produced great works 906 01:28:12,121 --> 01:28:18,139 Be it Michelangelo, Rodin, Rubens or the Impressionists 907 01:28:18,529 --> 01:28:21,084 None of these people... 908 01:28:21,488 --> 01:28:25,037 had any time a feeling for politics 909 01:28:25,293 --> 01:28:29,555 And even if they had, they shouldn't see into the future 910 01:28:29,826 --> 01:28:33,005 You also asked - I'll answer that later... 911 01:28:33,279 --> 01:28:37,184 whether 'Triumph of the Will' had any message 912 01:28:37,440 --> 01:28:43,392 While I was actually filming, of course I had no such thoughts 913 01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:46,554 But when I was editing... 914 01:28:46,848 --> 01:28:52,875 I did discover a certain message in it. You can find it yourself 915 01:28:53,137 --> 01:28:59,482 It's firstly the creation of jobs, through the labour-service scheme... 916 01:28:59,745 --> 01:29:04,202 and above all the speech by Hess where he says: 917 01:29:04,334 --> 01:29:05,608 You were... 918 01:29:05,917 --> 01:29:08,587 the guarantor of victory 919 01:29:09,007 --> 01:29:13,508 You are our guarantor of peace 920 01:29:13,746 --> 01:29:16,980 Adolf Hitler. Sieg heil! 921 01:29:23,287 --> 01:29:27,574 At the time we felt that one of the messages was peace 922 01:29:27,710 --> 01:29:30,706 It recurs throughout the film 923 01:29:30,855 --> 01:29:34,421 Other political motives or objectives aren't mentioned 924 01:29:34,578 --> 01:29:38,532 There's nothing about anti-semitism or race-theory 925 01:29:38,809 --> 01:29:43,268 Work and peace are the only messages in 'Triumph of the Will' 926 01:30:07,068 --> 01:30:11,465 There were films with far more swastika-banners... 927 01:30:11,727 --> 01:30:14,203 full of political bias 928 01:30:14,342 --> 01:30:16,490 'Triumph' had none of this... 929 01:30:16,776 --> 01:30:22,689 so I never felt I'd done anything that could do any damage 930 01:30:22,854 --> 01:30:29,198 If it had been harmful, the French would never have given it a gold medal... 931 01:30:23,149 --> 01:30:24,349 Olympic's film on camera 932 01:30:24,484 --> 01:30:26,065 That was a week before war broke out 933 01:30:26,085 --> 01:30:29,419 At the time she says, all that matter to her was the aesthetics of film 934 01:30:29,454 --> 01:30:34,240 two years before the outbreak of war 935 01:30:38,345 --> 01:30:43,078 The National Film Prize for 1934/35 is awarded... 936 01:30:43,370 --> 01:30:47,945 to Leni Riefenstahl for her film of the Nuremberg Party Congress... 937 01:30:48,197 --> 01:30:50,063 'Triumph of the Will' 938 01:30:51,943 --> 01:30:55,355 This work stands out as a great achievement... 939 01:30:55,634 --> 01:30:58,550 in the year's film output 940 01:30:59,089 --> 01:31:03,670 It is especially relevant because it presents our age 941 01:31:03,943 --> 01:31:07,639 It shows, in monumental images never before seen... 942 01:31:07,779 --> 01:31:12,028 the thrilling events of our political life 943 01:31:12,582 --> 01:31:18,347 It is the great vision of the Führer on film... 944 01:31:18,476 --> 01:31:23,025 presented in images of a vividness never before seen 945 01:31:23,297 --> 01:31:26,861 Politically speaking, the significance of this film... 946 01:31:27,030 --> 01:31:30,716 was that it was in tune with the times 947 01:31:30,879 --> 01:31:36,446 That's to say, 90% of Germans, and a majority of foreigners... 948 01:31:36,728 --> 01:31:41,109 believed in the peace that was being proclaimed 949 01:32:03,448 --> 01:32:07,852 When you look at 'Triumph of the Will' now... 950 01:32:08,133 --> 01:32:10,676 you must be proud of it 951 01:32:10,946 --> 01:32:16,551 But it had also made the second half of your life extremely hard 952 01:32:16,819 --> 01:32:18,243 How do you see it? 953 01:32:18,452 --> 01:32:21,743 I've never been proud of it. Neither today, nor then 954 01:32:22,016 --> 01:32:27,471 Proud of what? All that was slaving, all that work - it was ghastly 955 01:32:27,756 --> 01:32:33,626 I nearly ruined my health editing the film, and for what? 956 01:32:33,913 --> 01:32:37,365 True, the film was considered a good documentary 957 01:32:37,513 --> 01:32:42,343 But since the war it's been slated because it's seen as propaganda 958 01:32:42,475 --> 01:32:47,683 Before the war, of course, the film got all the international awards... 959 01:32:47,822 --> 01:32:52,983 like the Gold Medal in Paris and the one at the Biennale 960 01:32:53,247 --> 01:32:56,741 But after the war I not only got brickbats... 961 01:32:56,982 --> 01:32:59,823 I was castigated because of it 962 01:32:59,970 --> 01:33:02,104 So not only am I not proud... 963 01:33:02,373 --> 01:33:07,584 I'm deeply unhappy I made it 964 01:33:07,853 --> 01:33:13,002 If I'd known what the film would bring me. I'd never have made it 965 01:33:21,514 --> 01:33:24,408 Half a century later, the terrible legacy 966 01:33:24,479 --> 01:33:27,745 of the Nazis is still being digested in Germany 967 01:33:30,213 --> 01:33:34,002 After the war, Leni Riefenstahl, the obsessed and politically 968 01:33:34,137 --> 01:33:38,840 blinkered filmmaker was boycotted and universally despised 969 01:33:39,725 --> 01:33:44,374 To this day, she's not been able to make another film, that is the price 970 01:33:44,375 --> 01:33:48,372 she's had to pay for her brilliant career under the Nazis 971 01:33:56,133 --> 01:34:00,566 This shot is one of my favorites 972 01:34:00,849 --> 01:34:07,070 I got the effect... I brought out the festive quality... 973 01:34:08,641 --> 01:34:10,602 by using a telephoto lens 974 01:34:12,823 --> 01:34:16,699 That's why the banners look so densely packed 975 01:34:22,315 --> 01:34:24,881 And here comes something else 976 01:34:25,219 --> 01:34:29,057 It's the effect of the shots taken from the lift 977 01:34:31,963 --> 01:34:33,597 Now the camera swings... 978 01:34:35,629 --> 01:34:38,467 to one side... 979 01:34:39,916 --> 01:34:41,304 over to the right 980 01:34:44,255 --> 01:34:46,984 And then the camera swings... 981 01:34:47,154 --> 01:34:48,354 the other way... 982 01:34:49,545 --> 01:34:51,185 to the left 983 01:34:53,094 --> 01:34:58,963 These two angles produce the form of a circle... 984 01:34:59,246 --> 01:35:01,283 thus making a powerful impact 985 01:35:02,706 --> 01:35:07,120 Here the two lines of banners appear to be cutting across each other 986 01:35:07,283 --> 01:35:10,735 That was made possible by using different camera positions 987 01:35:11,048 --> 01:35:15,219 And the editing gives it a balletic quality 988 01:35:15,503 --> 01:35:17,712 It's cut in time to the music 989 01:35:22,316 --> 01:35:25,519 Those are the banners of the Stahlhelm 990 01:35:25,659 --> 01:35:31,062 There were various formations marching past 991 01:35:32,597 --> 01:35:36,078 That's interesting too 992 01:35:36,218 --> 01:35:38,279 {\a8}The way they walk down the steps 993 01:35:38,280 --> 01:35:41,669 Today, Triumph of the Will remains under lockened key in Germany 994 01:35:40,192 --> 01:35:42,108 {\a8}Here, do you see? 995 01:35:42,481 --> 01:35:45,220 People are still afraid to examine the film seriously 996 01:35:46,246 --> 01:35:48,508 {\a8}Precisely in time with the music 997 01:35:48,509 --> 01:35:50,797 Can a film really be that dangerous? 998 01:35:51,484 --> 01:35:56,972 Or is it too vivid a reminder of something that many would prefer to forget 999 01:35:57,559 --> 01:35:59,507 Interesting, isn't it? 1000 01:36:00,450 --> 01:36:04,185 End of the first part 1001 01:36:56,990 --> 01:37:03,344 In 1936, Leni Riefenstahl made the official film of the Olympic Games in Berlin 1002 01:37:16,545 --> 01:37:20,143 After the war, this documentary was listed in America as one of the 1003 01:37:20,144 --> 01:37:22,316 world's ten best films 1004 01:37:25,003 --> 01:37:31,366 I wondered, could I make this film? Could I make it interesting? 1005 01:37:31,516 --> 01:37:35,327 And suddenly I had before my eyes a picture... 1006 01:37:35,596 --> 01:37:41,044 of the Olympic Games in ancient Greece 1007 01:37:41,203 --> 01:37:42,743 Not only the stadium... 1008 01:37:42,995 --> 01:37:47,982 but the whole culture - the temples, the sculptures 1009 01:38:03,060 --> 01:38:06,343 The transition from the ancient world to the modern... 1010 01:38:06,596 --> 01:38:10,188 had wonderful dramatic possibilities 1011 01:38:10,477 --> 01:38:14,410 It was easier to present it in purely visual terms... 1012 01:38:14,533 --> 01:38:17,942 rather than as a series of actions 1013 01:39:04,995 --> 01:39:06,429 Riefenstahl was to direct the 1014 01:39:06,430 --> 01:39:09,425 entire film, even the sport sequences 1015 01:39:23,314 --> 01:39:26,908 Athlete models freeze by the bold take for Riefenstahl's camera 1016 01:39:48,197 --> 01:39:51,208 Under Riefenstahl's direction, the athletes would turn from 1017 01:39:51,209 --> 01:39:54,387 ordinary models into sporting Gods 1018 01:40:12,021 --> 01:40:16,940 - How did you prepare for the film? - Mainly by training the cameramen 1019 01:40:17,321 --> 01:40:20,424 Everything depended on them 1020 01:40:20,687 --> 01:40:25,468 I had four or five young men that I trained for months... 1021 01:40:25,618 --> 01:40:29,591 at athletics meetings, football matches and so on 1022 01:40:29,888 --> 01:40:34,638 Often without film, just to practice camera movements... 1023 01:40:34,779 --> 01:40:40,236 and get the quick reactions we needed 1024 01:40:41,620 --> 01:40:45,612 Never before had so much been spent on preparing to film a documentary 1025 01:40:46,265 --> 01:40:50,279 Officially Riefenstahl had received the assignment from the Olympic committee, 1026 01:40:50,862 --> 01:40:54,143 but it was the German Ministry of Propaganda which actually provided 1027 01:40:54,144 --> 01:40:56,928 the funds through indirect channels 1028 01:40:57,693 --> 01:41:00,709 Despite the economic problems of the times, the resources put 1029 01:41:00,710 --> 01:41:03,799 to the director's disposal were almost unlimited 1030 01:41:04,581 --> 01:41:08,169 For the first time in many years, Riefenstahl is reunited 1031 01:41:05,461 --> 01:41:06,680 {\a8}You still look so well 1032 01:41:06,681 --> 01:41:08,168 {\a8}I've no complaints 1033 01:41:08,169 --> 01:41:10,255 with two of her old cameramen 1034 01:41:10,256 --> 01:41:12,020 {\a8}Congratulations 1035 01:41:12,145 --> 01:41:15,308 You never change, do you? 1036 01:41:18,446 --> 01:41:25,027 My two best cameramen here again after half a century 1037 01:41:25,682 --> 01:41:29,284 Walter Frentz on the right was an expert in handheld camera 1038 01:41:29,604 --> 01:41:31,679 On the left is Guzzi Lantschner 1039 01:41:31,923 --> 01:41:35,439 I'll tell you something. Diving I can still do... 1040 01:41:35,721 --> 01:41:40,714 but that film - I couldn't make it again 1041 01:41:40,926 --> 01:41:42,817 Much too strenuous 1042 01:41:44,198 --> 01:41:46,218 We worked like mad 1043 01:41:46,361 --> 01:41:51,303 Late into the night. We couldn't do that now 1044 01:42:05,728 --> 01:42:09,427 Look. Just as it was 1045 01:42:09,718 --> 01:42:12,662 Do you remember, Guzzi... 1046 01:42:12,957 --> 01:42:16,366 how we looked for places to get the best angles? 1047 01:42:16,686 --> 01:42:20,458 We turned the stadium into a film studio 1048 01:42:23,580 --> 01:42:26,820 Many technical innovations were tried out in Olympiad 1049 01:42:27,247 --> 01:42:30,556 It was the first film in which pits were dug, so that the athletes 1050 01:42:30,557 --> 01:42:32,326 could be filmed against the sky 1051 01:42:34,571 --> 01:42:37,601 We had to fight for every hole we dug 1052 01:42:37,728 --> 01:42:39,298 You were always the one... 1053 01:42:39,542 --> 01:42:42,283 with the exact eye... 1054 01:42:42,438 --> 01:42:43,907 for a shot 1055 01:42:44,183 --> 01:42:47,473 Whether it should be half a metre right or left 1056 01:42:48,767 --> 01:42:51,641 Riefenstahl now had the full scope to apply the lesson 1057 01:42:51,642 --> 01:42:54,853 she had learned from Arnold Fanck, her great mentor 1058 01:42:58,061 --> 01:43:04,456 The best idea we had - I think it was your idea - was the catapult 1059 01:43:05,182 --> 01:43:09,502 We built a track with a catapult on it which travelled... 1060 01:43:09,796 --> 01:43:11,665 alongside the sprinters 1061 01:43:11,970 --> 01:43:16,873 It was fantastic but they banned it 1062 01:43:19,217 --> 01:43:21,302 We had lots of new ideas 1063 01:43:21,593 --> 01:43:25,569 Yes. The most important one was... 1064 01:43:25,851 --> 01:43:29,461 digging a hole for the pole-vault 1065 01:43:30,033 --> 01:43:32,523 Out in the field, to the left 1066 01:43:32,790 --> 01:43:35,369 And we filmed the whole thing... 1067 01:43:35,736 --> 01:43:40,716 against the Olympic flame. It gave us some marvellous shots 1068 01:43:40,973 --> 01:43:44,979 She was later reproached for many of the images pioneered in Olympiad 1069 01:43:45,399 --> 01:43:48,021 Her critics felt that the cult of the body beautiful 1070 01:43:48,243 --> 01:43:51,633 Riefenstahl's obsession with strength and athletic perfection 1071 01:43:51,888 --> 01:43:53,545 were unmistakably fascist 1072 01:43:54,696 --> 01:43:57,914 The same was later said of her photographs of Nuba tribesmen 1073 01:43:58,635 --> 01:44:01,966 It was important that each cameraman... 1074 01:44:02,247 --> 01:44:05,794 had a different lens and camera 1075 01:44:06,067 --> 01:44:11,784 You sometimes had a Bell and Howell and sometimes Sinclair 1076 01:44:11,922 --> 01:44:16,497 - And you had a Bell and Howell - With two speeds 1077 01:44:16,647 --> 01:44:20,840 Normal, 24 frames per second and fast, up to 48 1078 01:44:21,108 --> 01:44:23,712 That was important for the diving 1079 01:44:24,002 --> 01:44:27,234 The body could be seen so much more clearly 1080 01:44:27,505 --> 01:44:28,744 That was the first time... 1081 01:44:44,279 --> 01:44:48,955 Then we got the close-ups with the Ascania 1082 01:44:49,147 --> 01:44:54,612 We had a special lens made for us - a 600mm telephoto 1083 01:44:54,907 --> 01:44:57,520 They didn't exist then 1084 01:44:57,845 --> 01:45:02,621 Herr Shalck got those marvellous close-ups 1085 01:45:02,754 --> 01:45:06,034 Even though we couldn't get near the runners 1086 01:45:06,294 --> 01:45:08,912 We still got tight in on faces 1087 01:45:24,426 --> 01:45:30,416 Owens in the lead, Strandberg behind him, Rosenthal creeping up 1088 01:45:31,542 --> 01:45:37,076 Metcalfe makes a spurt. It's over. Owens wins the 100 metre sprint 1089 01:45:38,349 --> 01:45:40,080 I remember something else 1090 01:45:40,380 --> 01:45:43,170 The balloon. Do you remember? 1091 01:45:48,241 --> 01:45:51,955 Everyday we sent up a balloon... 1092 01:45:52,239 --> 01:45:56,037 with a tiny 5 metre camera... 1093 01:45:56,186 --> 01:45:59,939 to get an overall aerial view 1094 01:46:00,846 --> 01:46:07,386 Everyday it landed somewhere different - on roofs and things 1095 01:46:07,539 --> 01:46:11,942 None of the shots were any use 1096 01:46:16,632 --> 01:46:20,259 Anyone finding this camera would discover a little note in it 1097 01:46:20,369 --> 01:46:23,746 asking them to return it to the Leni Riefenstahl production team 1098 01:46:26,131 --> 01:46:30,474 We had the balloon at the regatta in Grünau 1099 01:46:30,771 --> 01:46:34,567 It crashed before the races finished 1100 01:46:34,841 --> 01:46:38,509 I cried. It was terrible 1101 01:46:42,082 --> 01:46:44,113 There was nothing they did not try out 1102 01:46:44,415 --> 01:46:48,368 A many of these experiments have become standard practice in film production 1103 01:46:50,935 --> 01:46:52,135 A break in the shoot 1104 01:46:52,357 --> 01:46:55,390 Leni and her old campaigners stop for coffee 1105 01:46:57,871 --> 01:47:01,228 I had so many arguments in those days 1106 01:47:01,642 --> 01:47:07,968 And them, in 1935, Churchill said "I envy the Germans their Führer" 1107 01:47:08,378 --> 01:47:14,624 I thought "How can I be cleverer than Churchill? He really said that" 1108 01:47:14,756 --> 01:47:21,227 Two years later, he said "The German swine must now be slaughtered" 1109 01:47:25,414 --> 01:47:28,919 I like your style. You'll do 1110 01:47:29,205 --> 01:47:31,292 And you were well in there... 1111 01:47:31,597 --> 01:47:36,929 because you flew to Moscow with Ribbentrop... 1112 01:47:37,590 --> 01:47:40,335 with the two copies of the Treaty 1113 01:47:40,651 --> 01:47:44,419 {\a8}Stalin wrote a letter which the Russian ambassador gave me 1114 01:47:44,420 --> 01:47:46,435 Riefenstahl refuses to get drawn into 1115 01:47:46,436 --> 01:47:49,231 {\a8}That was a week before war broke out 1116 01:47:46,435 --> 01:47:47,921 a political discussion about the 1117 01:47:47,922 --> 01:47:49,122 Olympic's film on camera 1118 01:47:50,427 --> 01:47:52,845 At the time she says all that mattered to her 1119 01:47:52,846 --> 01:47:54,631 was the aesthetics of film 1120 01:47:59,953 --> 01:48:01,612 I had 30 cameramen 1121 01:48:02,021 --> 01:48:07,863 Not all here. There were other events in Grünau and Kiel 1122 01:48:08,131 --> 01:48:14,148 There were also indoor events and the cameramen were spread around 1123 01:48:15,961 --> 01:48:20,404 Much of what is now a normal practice in an age of electronic live reporting, 1124 01:48:20,509 --> 01:48:23,295 was first tried out then by Leni Riefenstahl 1125 01:48:26,418 --> 01:48:30,307 In Olympiad, she set new standards for filming sporting events 1126 01:48:30,463 --> 01:48:34,277 and went far beyond the traditional bounds of a sport documentary 1127 01:48:35,155 --> 01:48:36,809 Nothing was left to chance 1128 01:48:37,389 --> 01:48:39,798 Dramatic scenes, which her crew could not get close enough to 1129 01:48:39,799 --> 01:48:43,592 during the competition, were filmed in advance during training 1130 01:48:43,794 --> 01:48:46,038 and later spliced into the final footage 1131 01:48:46,750 --> 01:48:50,581 In this way, many of the documentary sequences had changed the dramatic impact 1132 01:48:50,582 --> 01:48:51,895 of a feature film 1133 01:49:14,278 --> 01:49:17,904 It was worst when there were a lot of us 1134 01:49:18,195 --> 01:49:22,062 I had to assign jobs to everyone 1135 01:49:22,343 --> 01:49:27,642 I could only organise this once the day's shoot had finished 1136 01:49:27,797 --> 01:49:31,365 There was a production meeting every night 1137 01:49:31,604 --> 01:49:35,551 I'd have just 5 minutes to talk to each person... 1138 01:49:35,798 --> 01:49:39,617 and give out assignments... 1139 01:49:39,892 --> 01:49:41,493 {\a8}according to people's skills 1140 01:49:41,494 --> 01:49:43,796 The logistics of the operation were remarkable 1141 01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:45,896 They had no walkie-talkies or talkback 1142 01:49:46,480 --> 01:49:49,691 Riefenstahl planned the entire shoot like a military campaign 1143 01:49:49,918 --> 01:49:52,825 Every camera angle was deliberate and coordinated 1144 01:49:53,125 --> 01:49:55,319 I really admired her 1145 01:49:55,607 --> 01:50:01,166 She had an incredible ability for composing shots 1146 01:50:01,442 --> 01:50:03,829 And a tremendous eye 1147 01:50:04,131 --> 01:50:10,475 The shots she selected were always just right 1148 01:51:00,839 --> 01:51:02,677 The winner is England 1149 01:51:06,284 --> 01:51:09,649 She had such energy and determination 1150 01:51:09,838 --> 01:51:13,573 When we began the Olympics film... 1151 01:51:13,748 --> 01:51:18,682 we wanted to dig a hole beside the pole-vault... 1152 01:51:18,873 --> 01:51:23,323 so we could film the vaulters against the sky 1153 01:51:23,637 --> 01:51:29,947 But the Olympic Committee said it would endanger the athletes 1154 01:51:30,095 --> 01:51:35,255 So Leni said "Let me talk to them" She went to the Committee and said: 1155 01:51:35,405 --> 01:51:39,744 "Our film will be ruined if we can't do this" 1156 01:51:39,896 --> 01:51:45,172 She came back that night and said "We can do it". I cried my eyes out 1157 01:52:00,837 --> 01:52:05,420 As a superbly organized sporting event, the Berlin Olympics gave the Nazis 1158 01:52:05,421 --> 01:52:08,468 an opportunity to present Germany as a peaceful, 1159 01:52:08,469 --> 01:52:12,283 tolerant and powerful nation. And it is natural to assume 1160 01:52:12,829 --> 01:52:15,140 that Hitler would've welcomed the games 1161 01:52:16,474 --> 01:52:21,209 Hitler wasn't pleased I was making the film 1162 01:52:21,476 --> 01:52:26,261 Hitler wasn't in the least interested in the Olympics 1163 01:52:26,988 --> 01:52:33,310 He didn't like the Games at all. He told me so himself 1164 01:52:33,877 --> 01:52:35,981 It was understandable 1165 01:52:36,570 --> 01:52:40,750 Hitler wouldn't enjoy watching blacks win 1166 01:52:41,053 --> 01:52:47,042 Seeing all those international stars when he was such a Nationalist 1167 01:52:48,728 --> 01:52:54,044 A new world record. And gold for America 1168 01:53:04,635 --> 01:53:10,082 Wasn't this a chance to present a certain image of Germany? 1169 01:53:10,376 --> 01:53:13,745 Possibly - but Hitler wasn't interested 1170 01:53:14,071 --> 01:53:17,850 It took a lot of convincing to make him come 1171 01:53:18,048 --> 01:53:22,134 Come to the Games and Germany will do better, they said 1172 01:53:22,490 --> 01:53:26,491 He didn't care. He didn't like the stadium 1173 01:53:26,783 --> 01:53:28,396 It was too small 1174 01:53:28,612 --> 01:53:31,660 He didn't like the architecture 1175 01:53:32,470 --> 01:53:35,547 Ask anyone who was there 1176 01:53:35,782 --> 01:53:39,952 They'll tell you Hitler had no interest in the Games 1177 01:53:47,643 --> 01:53:52,765 The result of all this complicated coverage was 250 miles of film 1178 01:53:53,144 --> 01:53:58,421 You shot 400 km of film. How did you cope with so much material? 1179 01:53:58,570 --> 01:54:04,914 First of all, people don't understand why we shot so much film 1180 01:54:05,076 --> 01:54:11,581 They should remember that there were 136 different events 1181 01:54:11,737 --> 01:54:17,840 In the athletics heats, we never knew if a record would be broken 1182 01:54:18,107 --> 01:54:24,325 So we had to film everything - hence the quantities of film 1183 01:54:25,889 --> 01:54:29,368 Once again, Riefenstahl's legendary sense of order 1184 01:54:29,369 --> 01:54:32,392 and impeccable planning enabled her and her team 1185 01:54:32,658 --> 01:54:34,947 to keep a grasp on this vast project 1186 01:54:35,551 --> 01:54:39,641 Even so, the editing alone took two years, as always, 1187 01:54:39,642 --> 01:54:44,237 she did it herself, obsessively editing and re-editing her film 1188 01:54:48,421 --> 01:54:50,571 This little machine... 1189 01:54:50,806 --> 01:54:55,220 The Litax machine invented by Dr. Fanck... 1190 01:54:55,390 --> 01:54:59,706 made it possible to edit very fast 1191 01:55:00,010 --> 01:55:06,381 We didn't have to splice the strips of film into reels... 1192 01:55:06,671 --> 01:55:09,399 which was so time consuming 1193 01:55:09,558 --> 01:55:15,979 All we did was slot the film into this machine... 1194 01:55:17,186 --> 01:55:20,381 and snap it shut 1195 01:55:20,541 --> 01:55:25,763 We could then look and edit the film accurately 1196 01:55:25,923 --> 01:55:31,741 If I don't like a sequence, I throw the film into the bin... 1197 01:55:32,649 --> 01:55:35,871 or put it round my neck for later 1198 01:55:36,170 --> 01:55:42,428 Then I take another sequence and compare it 1199 01:55:47,054 --> 01:55:50,020 This enables me... 1200 01:55:51,005 --> 01:55:53,597 without exaggeration... 1201 01:55:53,866 --> 01:55:59,283 to work ten times faster than otherwise 1202 01:55:59,452 --> 01:56:04,885 This system only works for documentaries, not for features... 1203 01:56:05,020 --> 01:56:08,510 because here the soundtrack is put on later 1204 01:56:15,098 --> 01:56:18,257 One of the most difficult sequences was the marathon. 1205 01:56:18,497 --> 01:56:20,994 The ultimate test of sporting endurance 1206 01:56:21,342 --> 01:56:23,814 Once again, she used feature film techniques 1207 01:56:23,815 --> 01:56:26,256 to capture the sweat and the pain 1208 01:56:27,016 --> 01:56:32,503 I had to think hard how I could shape the 26-mile race... 1209 01:56:32,770 --> 01:56:39,241 into a few short minutes that would be exciting and interesting 1210 01:56:39,386 --> 01:56:45,193 I soon realised I couldn't achieve this... 1211 01:56:45,481 --> 01:56:50,097 just by filming the race step by step 1212 01:56:50,377 --> 01:56:53,185 Instead, I'd have to try... 1213 01:56:53,327 --> 01:56:58,566 to show the feelings, the mental state of the marathon runners 1214 01:56:58,825 --> 01:57:03,060 And I thought I could best express that... 1215 01:57:03,358 --> 01:57:07,694 by showing the exhaustion in their faces 1216 01:57:07,962 --> 01:57:11,249 How, though their legs were like lead... 1217 01:57:11,477 --> 01:57:16,079 they didn't collapse but kept going by sheer willpower 1218 01:57:16,237 --> 01:57:21,697 Willpower can't be shown visually but can be indicated by music 1219 01:57:22,007 --> 01:57:27,524 If you listen, you'll hear the music seeming to drive the runners on 1220 01:57:41,624 --> 01:57:47,230 The music expresses the will not to collapse but to reach the stadium 1221 01:57:47,545 --> 01:57:52,667 The camera looks down the torso, as we'd practised it... 1222 01:57:52,984 --> 01:57:56,443 to the tired legs almost sticking to the asphalt 1223 01:57:56,682 --> 01:57:59,823 And this difference, this portrayal... 1224 01:58:00,086 --> 01:58:04,753 maybe raised the film above the level of ordinary reportage 1225 01:59:27,408 --> 01:59:32,704 Leni Riefenstahl, on an official mission, visits the exhibition 1226 01:59:32,988 --> 01:59:35,960 The star of German cinema speaks 1227 01:59:36,210 --> 01:59:42,069 You've been invited here to present your film 1228 01:59:42,215 --> 01:59:47,165 It was very hard work but I'm happy the task was entrusted to me 1229 01:59:47,435 --> 01:59:53,354 People don't understand why 'Olympia' has taken so long to release 1230 01:59:53,644 --> 01:59:57,787 We shot 400,000 metres of film 1231 01:59:58,039 --> 02:00:03,093 And it's a huge task, sorting through this footage... 1232 02:00:03,235 --> 02:00:06,739 putting it in order and making a film out of it 1233 02:00:07,294 --> 02:00:13,201 Just viewing all the film took 10 weeks 1234 02:00:13,357 --> 02:00:17,531 I spent 10 hours a day in the projection-room 1235 02:00:17,780 --> 02:00:20,713 That gives you an idea of what's involved 1236 02:00:23,195 --> 02:00:29,639 For the men's high diving, we experimented a lot 1237 02:00:30,097 --> 02:00:33,966 Up till then it had been done rather boringly... 1238 02:00:34,239 --> 02:00:38,269 with a single shot of the man plunging off the board 1239 02:00:38,402 --> 02:00:43,428 We set up three cameras for this event 1240 02:00:44,938 --> 02:00:48,852 Guzzi Lantschner was up there with a hand-held camera 1241 02:00:49,128 --> 02:00:51,239 And Hans Ertl below... 1242 02:00:51,368 --> 02:00:54,182 with an underwater camera 1243 02:00:54,347 --> 02:00:58,015 Over there was the slow motion camera... 1244 02:00:58,169 --> 02:01:01,936 so that the diving could be filmed from all angles 1245 02:01:02,078 --> 02:01:07,905 The most interesting experiment was the underwater shooting 1246 02:01:08,194 --> 02:01:10,201 It had never been done before 1247 02:01:10,502 --> 02:01:15,607 Ertl had built himself a camera and sat in the water 1248 02:01:15,754 --> 02:01:21,926 He followed the diver down till he hit the water... 1249 02:01:22,210 --> 02:01:25,029 switched to slow motion, changed focus... 1250 02:01:25,309 --> 02:01:30,079 and kept the camera on the diver until he surfaced 1251 02:01:37,573 --> 02:01:40,769 It's the Japanese girl again 1252 02:01:53,554 --> 02:01:57,040 We experimented with the swimming too 1253 02:01:57,263 --> 02:02:01,846 Over there for the swimming... 1254 02:02:02,088 --> 02:02:08,489 we pushed the camera along on a rubber raft, hanging from a rig... 1255 02:02:08,686 --> 02:02:12,774 to get close-ups of the swimmers' faces 1256 02:02:12,905 --> 02:02:16,723 But we couldn't use it in the finals 1257 02:02:19,362 --> 02:02:20,636 Higgins 1258 02:02:24,475 --> 02:02:25,719 Yldefonzo... 1259 02:02:27,696 --> 02:02:28,896 Koike... 1260 02:02:30,252 --> 02:02:31,579 Ito 1261 02:02:33,128 --> 02:02:35,139 A fight to the finish 1262 02:02:54,879 --> 02:02:57,153 I wanted a crescendo of intensity 1263 02:02:57,311 --> 02:03:03,265 I began mundanely enough with the women's diving... 1264 02:03:03,414 --> 02:03:09,418 giving the diver's names. With the men I left that out 1265 02:03:09,586 --> 02:03:14,350 I just edited to highlight the diving itself and the movement 1266 02:03:14,481 --> 02:03:18,297 They looked like birds swooping through the air 1267 02:03:18,567 --> 02:03:22,095 This looked very attractive... 1268 02:03:22,354 --> 02:03:26,715 so, to heighten the effect, I used different tempi when editing 1269 02:03:26,862 --> 02:03:31,992 If you look, you'll see the first dive is at normal speed 1270 02:03:32,137 --> 02:03:37,795 Then the next one is a bit slower - not quite slow motion but almost 1271 02:03:37,964 --> 02:03:42,115 And so on until full slow motion 1272 02:03:42,414 --> 02:03:47,850 But even that wasn't enough. They really had to look like birds 1273 02:03:50,944 --> 02:03:53,004 Her creative editing techniques are seen to 1274 02:03:53,005 --> 02:03:55,573 greatest artistic effect in high diving 1275 02:03:56,466 --> 02:03:59,766 It's only when you disentangle her handy work on an editing desk 1276 02:04:00,024 --> 02:04:03,104 that you realize how some of the sequences were printed backwards 1277 02:04:03,331 --> 02:04:05,955 and that the diver was actually springing out of water 1278 02:04:06,178 --> 02:04:09,638 reversing through the air and landing back on the spring-board 1279 02:04:23,496 --> 02:04:28,245 I achieved this by sometimes splicing in a sequence back to front 1280 02:04:28,524 --> 02:04:33,709 But it was hardly noticeable. It just enhanced the feeling of movement 1281 02:04:33,963 --> 02:04:37,726 It simply became a form of artistic expression 1282 02:05:27,282 --> 02:05:31,105 The creative sport photography in Olympiad has rarely been bettered 1283 02:05:31,630 --> 02:05:35,305 To what extent, though, of these films an expression of the Fascist spirit 1284 02:05:35,580 --> 02:05:37,979 which prevailed in Germany at that time? 1285 02:05:38,650 --> 02:05:41,481 Is Riefenstahl no more than an artist obsessed, 1286 02:05:41,724 --> 02:05:44,207 blind to events outside her cutting? 1287 02:05:45,345 --> 02:05:47,146 The question remains unanswered 1288 02:05:48,417 --> 02:05:52,942 Today, aged 90, she still repeats what she has always said 1289 02:05:53,319 --> 02:05:56,576 that art and politics are two different things, 1290 02:05:57,015 --> 02:05:59,585 that one has nothing to do with the other 1291 02:06:22,274 --> 02:06:26,838 The premier of Olympiad took place on Hitler's 49th birthday 1292 02:06:38,658 --> 02:06:42,397 Immediately afterwards, she went on a European tour with her film 1293 02:06:43,526 --> 02:06:46,468 It was hailed everywhere as a triumph and success 1294 02:06:47,491 --> 02:06:51,671 The German Film Prize 1937-38... 1295 02:06:51,801 --> 02:06:53,847 goes to Leni Riefenstahl... 1296 02:06:53,986 --> 02:06:58,590 for the film "Olympia" 1297 02:07:00,259 --> 02:07:03,619 April 1938, the premiere in Vienna 1298 02:07:04,039 --> 02:07:07,433 Eighteen months later, the Second World War broke out 1299 02:07:10,388 --> 02:07:16,072 All Vienna welcomes you 1300 02:07:16,313 --> 02:07:19,908 Thank you for your kind words 1301 02:07:20,169 --> 02:07:26,132 I am so very happy to be in Vienna and attending the premiere 1302 02:07:26,456 --> 02:07:29,185 I've not been here for five years 1303 02:07:29,450 --> 02:07:35,144 This is my first chance to see Vienna since our Führer came to power 1304 02:07:37,789 --> 02:07:41,123 In November of that year, Germany witnessed the notorious Kristallnacht 1305 02:07:41,973 --> 02:07:45,320 The persecution of the Jews reached new extremes 1306 02:07:49,708 --> 02:07:52,756 But once again Riefenstahl wasn't there to see it 1307 02:07:53,201 --> 02:07:57,068 It was on a boat sailing for New York that she first learnt of the Kristallnacht 1308 02:07:58,177 --> 02:08:00,052 But her trip to Hollywood was a fiasco 1309 02:08:00,743 --> 02:08:04,798 The film industry which included many German emigrants demanded a boycott 1310 02:08:05,151 --> 02:08:09,728 I didn't believe it. It seemed impossible 1311 02:08:09,994 --> 02:08:15,820 I'd read so many false reports about Germany in the American newspapers 1312 02:08:16,117 --> 02:08:19,787 I thought it was lies, so I said so 1313 02:08:20,158 --> 02:08:26,262 Its nothing true, what the American newspapers write about the Nazis 1314 02:08:26,445 --> 02:08:31,507 I couldn't believe it but, when I got to New York. I saw huge headlines 1315 02:08:31,667 --> 02:08:37,496 One page said "Synagogues burnt down, shops looted. Jews persecuted" 1316 02:08:37,805 --> 02:08:39,879 On the next page: "Riefenstahl says..." 1317 02:08:40,027 --> 02:08:43,669 Its nothing true, what the American newspapers write about the Nazis 1318 02:08:43,811 --> 02:08:50,303 Whenever I was asked, I said "It can't be true. It's impossible" 1319 02:08:50,897 --> 02:08:52,837 KILL THE JEWS 1320 02:08:55,397 --> 02:09:00,612 Now you're going to ask me why I didn't leave Germany 1321 02:09:00,881 --> 02:09:04,273 You see, I loved my homeland 1322 02:09:04,542 --> 02:09:10,135 The ones who left were emigrants and people who'd been banned 1323 02:09:10,392 --> 02:09:15,069 I could work. I was free. I hoped it would never happen again 1324 02:09:15,219 --> 02:09:19,378 We all hoped it was an isolated event 1325 02:09:22,147 --> 02:09:26,033 All true art must imprint... 1326 02:09:26,316 --> 02:09:30,480 the stamp of beauty on itself 1327 02:09:31,761 --> 02:09:35,724 All that is healthy is right and natural 1328 02:09:35,881 --> 02:09:38,850 What is right and natural is beautiful 1329 02:09:41,664 --> 02:09:45,116 It's our task to discover true beauty 1330 02:09:46,582 --> 02:09:48,890 We must not be led astray... 1331 02:09:49,113 --> 02:09:51,970 by the mad, impudent drivel... 1332 02:09:52,158 --> 02:09:54,911 of effete literati who decry... 1333 02:09:55,074 --> 02:09:58,096 the natural and beautiful as kitsch 1334 02:09:59,152 --> 02:10:01,207 The pictures were awful 1335 02:10:01,517 --> 02:10:04,020 They were all kitsch 1336 02:10:04,173 --> 02:10:06,879 I hardly saw a picture I liked 1337 02:10:07,151 --> 02:10:13,163 I was very disappointed at the time because my great love was modern art 1338 02:10:13,316 --> 02:10:18,655 Along with the French Impressionists and Cranach 1339 02:10:18,806 --> 02:10:21,851 But what the National Socialists... 1340 02:10:22,130 --> 02:10:27,610 considered - or called or admired as art - was for me kitsch 1341 02:10:27,921 --> 02:10:31,782 EXHIBITION OF DEGENERATE ART ADMISSION FREE 1342 02:10:32,679 --> 02:10:38,914 Pure German artistic sensibility means nothing to a rootless Jew 1343 02:10:39,216 --> 02:10:43,811 What he calls art must titillate as depraved senses 1344 02:10:44,085 --> 02:10:47,925 It must be cloaked in corruption as sickness 1345 02:10:48,062 --> 02:10:52,136 It must be unnatural, grotesque, perverse... 1346 02:10:52,424 --> 02:10:53,752 or pathological 1347 02:10:55,898 --> 02:10:58,156 These febrile fantasies... 1348 02:10:58,306 --> 02:10:59,768 of incurably sick minds... 1349 02:11:00,045 --> 02:11:03,722 were once flaunted before the public by Jewish art critics... 1350 02:11:03,845 --> 02:11:08,286 as the highest form of artistic expression 1351 02:11:08,563 --> 02:11:11,834 Surely speeches like this would've made any sensitive artist 1352 02:11:11,903 --> 02:11:13,478 stop and ponder 1353 02:11:13,890 --> 02:11:17,818 After everything that had happened it was the least one could expect 1354 02:11:19,657 --> 02:11:26,001 Hitler made a speech about art and it was so wrong that I thought: 1355 02:11:26,257 --> 02:11:32,359 "If he can be so wrong and yet sound so convincing about art - 1356 02:11:32,636 --> 02:11:36,228 "so convincing many believed him - 1357 02:11:36,479 --> 02:11:39,911 "maybe he's making political mistakes too" 1358 02:11:40,065 --> 02:11:44,352 That's when I began to have real doubts 1359 02:11:44,598 --> 02:11:51,076 I became much more critical when I listened to his speeches... 1360 02:11:51,652 --> 02:11:56,130 but I must admit I was never an opponent 1361 02:11:58,030 --> 02:12:01,631 In 1939, German troops marched into Poland 1362 02:12:02,272 --> 02:12:05,225 Riefenstahl was sent to the front as a war reporter 1363 02:12:19,950 --> 02:12:24,822 But on her first day there she witnessed the brutal ill treatment of Polish civilians 1364 02:12:25,337 --> 02:12:27,699 A photograph seems to testify to her horror 1365 02:12:28,912 --> 02:12:32,668 Riefenstahl made an official complaint to the Nazi General in charge 1366 02:12:32,789 --> 02:12:34,822 And left Poland immediately 1367 02:12:37,698 --> 02:12:41,515 In August 1940, the German troops marched into Paris 1368 02:12:41,936 --> 02:12:44,093 The Blitzkrieg in the west was over 1369 02:12:48,550 --> 02:12:51,305 Riefenstahl sent a Euphoric telegram to the Führer 1370 02:12:54,265 --> 02:12:59,622 Mein Führer, it is with indescribable joy, deep emotion and warm gratitude, 1371 02:13:00,017 --> 02:13:03,375 that we share your greatest and Germany's greatest victory, 1372 02:13:04,080 --> 02:13:06,430 the entry of German troops into Paris 1373 02:13:06,822 --> 02:13:09,789 Your deeds exceed the power of human imagination 1374 02:13:10,341 --> 02:13:12,901 they are without equal in the history of mankind, 1375 02:13:13,194 --> 02:13:14,653 how can we ever thank you? 1376 02:13:15,203 --> 02:13:19,635 Simply to offer you my congratulations is an inadequate expression of the feelings 1377 02:13:19,636 --> 02:13:21,007 that have stirred me 1378 02:13:21,771 --> 02:13:24,211 I didn't send the telegram... 1379 02:13:24,483 --> 02:13:29,695 because our troops were in France, and because of our victory... 1380 02:13:29,940 --> 02:13:35,893 but because we thought the war was over. We were in a frenzy of joy 1381 02:13:36,152 --> 02:13:41,272 For three days the bells rang and people kissed on the streets 1382 02:13:41,515 --> 02:13:44,788 We all believed this terrible war was over 1383 02:13:45,062 --> 02:13:50,757 It was in this mood that I sent Hitler my enthusiastic telegram 1384 02:13:58,829 --> 02:14:01,641 However there was no question of peace now, 1385 02:14:02,057 --> 02:14:05,957 after Germany's attack on Russia the conflict in Europe escalated 1386 02:14:06,099 --> 02:14:07,880 and became a World War. 1387 02:14:14,446 --> 02:14:17,075 But Riefenstahl has retreated to the mountains again 1388 02:14:17,697 --> 02:14:20,516 She had begun work on Tiefland, the lowlands 1389 02:14:20,599 --> 02:14:22,793 A film version of d'Albert's opera 1390 02:14:36,966 --> 02:14:39,074 It was forced on me... 1391 02:14:39,377 --> 02:14:45,191 because I wanted to keep my head down and avoid making war films 1392 02:14:45,434 --> 02:14:48,243 "Tiefland" was a neutral subject 1393 02:14:48,498 --> 02:14:51,720 Since "Olympia" had paid off... 1394 02:14:52,110 --> 02:14:57,450 I was completely free and had enough money to make a film... 1395 02:14:57,708 --> 02:15:00,837 from a purely artistic perspective 1396 02:15:07,396 --> 02:15:10,816 Once again, Riefenstahl had an opportunity to dance. 1397 02:15:11,406 --> 02:15:14,422 Set in Spain, the story tackles the social conflict 1398 02:15:14,423 --> 02:15:16,620 between farmers and land owners 1399 02:15:33,548 --> 02:15:37,457 When the production was later moved to Bavaria, they needed characters 1400 02:15:37,458 --> 02:15:39,068 who looked Mediterranean 1401 02:15:40,484 --> 02:15:45,009 Gypsies were brought in from a Gypsy concentration camp near Salzburg 1402 02:15:45,393 --> 02:15:47,544 to be used as extras 1403 02:15:49,005 --> 02:15:52,627 This is one of the main accusations that continues to be levelled 1404 02:15:52,628 --> 02:15:54,751 at Riefenstahl to this day 1405 02:15:59,530 --> 02:16:04,769 List of extras from detention camp in Leopoldskron 1406 02:16:22,534 --> 02:16:26,617 With Hitler's support at the beginning of the project, Riefenstahl was given 1407 02:16:24,582 --> 02:16:26,201 {\a8}Come to the castle. 1408 02:16:26,202 --> 02:16:28,053 {\a8}She shall dance for me 1409 02:16:26,617 --> 02:16:30,748 as much foreign currency as she needed to start filming in Spain 1410 02:16:31,550 --> 02:16:34,085 But the production was dogged by misfortune 1411 02:16:35,482 --> 02:16:38,345 It was a disaster from the start 1412 02:16:38,626 --> 02:16:44,325 We began by looking for our locations in Spain... 1413 02:16:44,553 --> 02:16:47,120 to keep costs down 1414 02:16:47,444 --> 02:16:51,542 But the war came and we couldn't stay in Spain 1415 02:16:51,801 --> 02:16:55,091 Our crew left by the very last plane 1416 02:16:55,341 --> 02:17:00,193 We then had to build all the sets with mountains behind 1417 02:17:00,458 --> 02:17:04,816 We had to build an entire Bavarian village. It was very hard 1418 02:17:05,063 --> 02:17:10,520 Then the snow came and destroyed the village and it had to be rebuilt 1419 02:17:10,724 --> 02:17:16,555 As we weren't part of the war effort, we waited 2 years for a studio 1420 02:17:16,823 --> 02:17:22,799 We had to tear our sets down so propaganda films could be made 1421 02:17:54,361 --> 02:17:59,115 Many of these look like paintings. How did you achieve this effect? 1422 02:17:59,239 --> 02:18:03,273 It was my intention, with this film... 1423 02:18:03,532 --> 02:18:07,084 to concentrate on the visual... 1424 02:18:07,221 --> 02:18:10,248 and maintain the art of filming in black and white 1425 02:18:10,387 --> 02:18:15,187 At that time there was a big switch to colour 1426 02:18:15,316 --> 02:18:19,932 Most films were in colour and hardly anything was in black and white 1427 02:18:20,197 --> 02:18:23,758 Black and white is a special kind of art, like graphic art 1428 02:18:24,022 --> 02:18:25,872 I wanted to make a film... 1429 02:18:26,159 --> 02:18:31,515 which would prove there are effects in black and white... 1430 02:18:31,798 --> 02:18:35,818 that can't be bettered - or achieved at all - with colour 1431 02:18:48,658 --> 02:18:50,246 God be with you, Pedro 1432 02:18:50,494 --> 02:18:52,549 Good day to you, Nando! 1433 02:18:54,122 --> 02:18:58,726 - I'm glad to be up here again - You're up from the Deep Valley? 1434 02:19:00,556 --> 02:19:06,323 I've brought flour and salt. Up here, Pedro, I feel so much freer 1435 02:19:06,578 --> 02:19:08,876 I worked a lot with filters 1436 02:19:09,022 --> 02:19:15,294 Here I used an orange filter so this shot - I remember clearly... 1437 02:19:15,585 --> 02:19:19,127 had to have an aperture of around 3.2... 1438 02:19:19,377 --> 02:19:23,963 - For depth... - No, for an airy, atmospheric effect 1439 02:19:49,961 --> 02:19:55,187 In my films I always made sure the men... 1440 02:19:55,466 --> 02:19:58,564 actors or not, were lit differently... 1441 02:19:58,836 --> 02:20:00,312 from the women 1442 02:20:00,454 --> 02:20:02,325 They were lit... 1443 02:20:02,628 --> 02:20:05,744 from the side so their features stood out 1444 02:20:06,102 --> 02:20:11,136 Whereas, what's important with women is to make them look... 1445 02:20:11,383 --> 02:20:13,844 young and lovely 1446 02:20:14,084 --> 02:20:18,399 The same lighting can make a woman look... 1447 02:20:18,687 --> 02:20:24,530 20 years youngers or olders, depending on the angle 1448 02:20:27,516 --> 02:20:29,394 Make yourself beautiful 1449 02:20:52,594 --> 02:20:54,850 That's how you must look 1450 02:20:55,692 --> 02:20:59,514 With a young woman, who must look beautiful... 1451 02:20:59,675 --> 02:21:03,165 you need a very soft light from the front 1452 02:21:03,315 --> 02:21:09,316 No side-lighting at all, so no facial lines or flaws are visible 1453 02:21:09,596 --> 02:21:13,717 The only really pretty subjects to photograph are babies 1454 02:21:14,004 --> 02:21:16,142 They've absolutely no wrinkles 1455 02:21:16,313 --> 02:21:20,377 Even if a woman has only slight lines on her face... 1456 02:21:20,651 --> 02:21:24,084 they'll appear worse on film 1457 02:21:24,650 --> 02:21:29,289 Lighting is very important 1458 02:21:33,339 --> 02:21:37,425 Marlene Dietrich always had the same lighting 1459 02:21:37,557 --> 02:21:41,801 Same lighting with a lamp right above her 1460 02:21:42,066 --> 02:21:48,051 It shone down on her face, gave her shadows, and made her look thin 1461 02:21:48,353 --> 02:21:51,553 Another woman would need different lighting 1462 02:21:51,903 --> 02:21:53,248 What kind did you need? 1463 02:21:53,520 --> 02:21:59,939 I needed a soft front light - quite high, but not as high as Marlene's 1464 02:22:00,095 --> 02:22:05,627 I didn't want to look as gaunt as her but I did need soft front-lighting 1465 02:22:09,140 --> 02:22:10,902 Wait till I'm sitting 1466 02:22:11,167 --> 02:22:15,032 I just want to see what I need 1467 02:22:18,513 --> 02:22:23,093 Better go in a bit closer 1468 02:22:33,359 --> 02:22:37,802 To achieve this picturesque effect... 1469 02:22:38,076 --> 02:22:43,622 you must look for subjects which make a composition in themselves 1470 02:22:43,902 --> 02:22:46,982 You can't set up a camera just anywhere 1471 02:22:47,239 --> 02:22:53,152 Outdoors, the aperture is generally reduced because there's so much light 1472 02:22:53,427 --> 02:22:58,559 This gives a sharp focus and robs the shot of air and atmosphere 1473 02:22:58,824 --> 02:23:03,712 To avoid this sharpness and still keep a feeling of realism... 1474 02:23:03,991 --> 02:23:06,681 I used very strong filters 1475 02:23:07,343 --> 02:23:11,526 I could filter out the light without reducing the aperture... 1476 02:23:11,808 --> 02:23:15,696 and achieve this picturesque effect - sometimes with coloured filters 1477 02:23:27,994 --> 02:23:32,668 The hut wasn't built and then filmed 1478 02:23:32,944 --> 02:23:37,856 First we chose it, selected the background and set up the camera 1479 02:23:37,997 --> 02:23:40,878 Then, using the eye of the camera... 1480 02:23:41,163 --> 02:23:46,239 we incorporated the hut into the whole composition 1481 02:23:46,378 --> 02:23:50,631 That's how we achieved this harmonious effect 1482 02:24:00,419 --> 02:24:05,350 - Can I have something to drink? - Yes, I've plenty of milk 1483 02:24:06,109 --> 02:24:10,067 The film was almost finished when the war ended 1484 02:24:10,376 --> 02:24:14,963 Everything was carted off to France where it lay for 10 years 1485 02:24:15,211 --> 02:24:19,993 The French hacked it about and tried to make it into a film 1486 02:24:20,290 --> 02:24:22,304 A lot of footage was lost 1487 02:24:22,626 --> 02:24:27,357 I had to employ several lawyers to get the material back 1488 02:24:27,651 --> 02:24:31,881 Then I had to put it together. It was quite a saga 1489 02:24:33,851 --> 02:24:38,733 While Riefenstahl was working on Tiefland, the war entered its final phase 1490 02:24:55,861 --> 02:24:58,398 As the bombs rained down on Berlin, 1491 02:24:58,805 --> 02:25:02,604 Riefenstahl took her production company, and set off for the Tirol 1492 02:25:06,893 --> 02:25:10,870 She acquired a farmhouse at the foot of the Wilder Kaiser mountain near Kitzbühel, 1493 02:25:11,257 --> 02:25:14,614 an idyllic refuge, in the midst of total war 1494 02:25:19,015 --> 02:25:21,156 Here she continued to edit Tiefland, 1495 02:25:21,398 --> 02:25:23,370 right to the final days of the war 1496 02:25:23,979 --> 02:25:25,217 Obsessed with her work, 1497 02:25:25,218 --> 02:25:30,005 she can hardly to have heard the allied bombers flying over daily on their way to Berlin 1498 02:25:31,261 --> 02:25:33,990 At what point was her image of Hitler shattered? 1499 02:25:37,076 --> 02:25:40,995 My image of Hitler was shattered much too late 1500 02:25:41,261 --> 02:25:44,032 Right at the end of the war 1501 02:25:44,305 --> 02:25:48,520 When I saw he wasn't visiting the bombed cities... 1502 02:25:48,865 --> 02:25:52,541 and seeing the misery for himself 1503 02:25:52,947 --> 02:25:57,746 And that he even recruited old people and children for the 'Volkssturm'... 1504 02:25:58,011 --> 02:26:01,918 I was appalled. His image was totally shattered 1505 02:26:15,402 --> 02:26:17,660 When did you last see Hitler? 1506 02:26:17,930 --> 02:26:23,302 After my war-marriage, which was on 21st March, 1944 1507 02:26:25,599 --> 02:26:28,487 My husband and I were invited... 1508 02:26:28,618 --> 02:26:31,263 to the Berghof 1509 02:26:33,651 --> 02:26:35,521 That was the last time 1510 02:26:35,842 --> 02:26:40,239 He was very distracted and kept up a continual monologue 1511 02:26:40,520 --> 02:26:46,918 He no longer seemed like a man in touch with reality, more like a ghost 1512 02:26:49,041 --> 02:26:50,959 The final battle for Berlin 1513 02:27:01,755 --> 02:27:05,834 By the beginning of 1945, it was all over for Germany 1514 02:27:06,273 --> 02:27:08,415 The country lay in ruins 1515 02:27:17,099 --> 02:27:20,970 First French and then American troops marched into the Tirol 1516 02:27:21,155 --> 02:27:23,504 And Riefenstahl was arrested in Kitzbühel 1517 02:27:27,963 --> 02:27:34,366 It was a time that beggars description 1518 02:27:34,912 --> 02:27:41,367 So sad, so dreadful. All our ideals were shattered 1519 02:27:42,163 --> 02:27:45,236 One just could not comprehend it all 1520 02:27:45,549 --> 02:27:51,141 It was a terrible fall into the abyss 1521 02:27:52,584 --> 02:27:57,811 It was only when I was interrogated by the Americans in Dachau... 1522 02:27:58,100 --> 02:28:01,318 that I saw pictures of the camps 1523 02:28:01,561 --> 02:28:07,205 I'd never seen any pictures or heard anything about them 1524 02:28:21,794 --> 02:28:27,724 It was such a terrible shock 1525 02:28:28,001 --> 02:28:31,071 I couldn't believe... 1526 02:28:31,207 --> 02:28:34,800 human beings could do such things 1527 02:28:34,968 --> 02:28:41,138 And these things had been done on Hitler's orders 1528 02:28:47,627 --> 02:28:53,944 It was quite a time before I could believe it 1529 02:28:54,099 --> 02:28:59,278 And, when I did, my life fell apart because I'd believed in Hitler 1530 02:29:23,577 --> 02:29:25,795 It was so shattering... 1531 02:29:26,108 --> 02:29:30,997 that one's own life seemed utterly unimportant 1532 02:29:31,233 --> 02:29:34,435 There were only two possibilities 1533 02:29:34,701 --> 02:29:40,962 Either to live with this appalling burden of guild weighing us down... 1534 02:29:41,242 --> 02:29:42,442 or to die 1535 02:29:42,824 --> 02:29:45,920 It was a constant dilemma, to live or to die 1536 02:29:50,702 --> 02:29:56,476 This bloody struggle had so far caused 60 million human lives in Europe alone 1537 02:30:01,432 --> 02:30:05,903 After you discovered the crimes of the Third Reich... 1538 02:30:06,147 --> 02:30:09,346 did you look on your work differently? 1539 02:30:09,596 --> 02:30:15,945 No. I was just appalled and confused to have lived through that period 1540 02:30:17,039 --> 02:30:20,499 I did look at it differently... 1541 02:30:20,875 --> 02:30:26,493 to the extent that I put myself into the minds of the victims 1542 02:30:26,747 --> 02:30:33,153 How awful for them to see those swastikas, the SS men and the SA - 1543 02:30:33,451 --> 02:30:39,496 people we'd never thought of as criminals 1544 02:30:39,638 --> 02:30:46,060 It was a breakdown that's actually been permanent 1545 02:30:46,452 --> 02:30:49,410 I've never recovered from the horror 1546 02:31:15,363 --> 02:31:17,119 People say of me: 1547 02:31:17,267 --> 02:31:22,746 "She's blind. She doesn't want to know 1548 02:31:23,015 --> 02:31:25,708 "She'll always be a Nazi" 1549 02:31:25,864 --> 02:31:29,942 But none of this applied to me 1550 02:31:30,320 --> 02:31:35,131 I was never a Nazi, so I can't be one still 1551 02:31:35,271 --> 02:31:41,672 I condemn all that happened but it doesn't help. They don't believe me 1552 02:31:44,001 --> 02:31:48,661 At the denazification trial in Freiburg, Leni Riefenstahl's connection with the 1553 02:31:48,662 --> 02:31:51,821 National Socialists was scrutinized closely 1554 02:31:52,455 --> 02:31:56,172 Most of the witnesses who testified at the trial are still alive 1555 02:31:56,717 --> 02:31:59,664 and continue to confirm the statements they made then 1556 02:32:00,716 --> 02:32:05,062 Riefenstahl's trial attracted huge attention from the world's press 1557 02:32:05,847 --> 02:32:10,463 Finally the court declared that she couldn't be condemned as a Nazi 1558 02:32:10,820 --> 02:32:13,311 but classed as a sympathizer 1559 02:32:14,759 --> 02:32:19,910 The judges found no political activity in support of the Nazi regime 1560 02:32:20,094 --> 02:32:21,872 that would justify punishment 1561 02:32:22,362 --> 02:32:25,173 There were many however, who remembered Riefenstahl's 1562 02:32:25,292 --> 02:32:27,412 prominent position in the Third Reich 1563 02:32:27,594 --> 02:32:29,303 and were unhappy with the verdict 1564 02:32:30,676 --> 02:32:35,561 Character assassination is all too easy 1565 02:32:35,798 --> 02:32:38,327 I've been attached countless times 1566 02:32:38,659 --> 02:32:43,435 The most incredible things have been said about me 1567 02:32:43,600 --> 02:32:48,035 For instance, that I was Hitler's mistress, his lover... 1568 02:32:48,285 --> 02:32:53,178 Goebbel's lover, or Goering's - or of all of them 1569 02:32:53,335 --> 02:32:58,075 That I'd used gypsies from a concentration camp for a film... 1570 02:32:58,389 --> 02:33:00,037 which I never did 1571 02:33:00,191 --> 02:33:03,161 All this was stated... 1572 02:33:03,416 --> 02:33:09,769 to try and finish me and ensure I never worked again 1573 02:33:11,179 --> 02:33:13,537 After the war, for over 20 years, 1574 02:33:13,773 --> 02:33:17,570 Riefenstahl lived alone with her mother in an attic in Munich 1575 02:33:18,104 --> 02:33:19,849 She was never to make another film 1576 02:33:23,941 --> 02:33:28,379 Despite this, she still receives fanmails from all over the world 1577 02:33:28,940 --> 02:33:32,527 For in the 1960s, she made a well publicized comeback 1578 02:33:33,370 --> 02:33:36,433 In her travels she had discovered a new continent 1579 02:33:36,548 --> 02:33:39,130 and a fresh inspiration in Africa 1580 02:33:48,042 --> 02:33:53,298 In 1962, Riefenstahl travelled to the southern Sudan to visit the Nuba 1581 02:33:53,580 --> 02:33:56,289 a remote community of around a 100 tribes 1582 02:33:56,422 --> 02:33:58,995 who'd had a little contact with the outside world 1583 02:34:12,427 --> 02:34:15,672 Her love of Africa had begun some years earlier, 1584 02:34:15,673 --> 02:34:20,019 when she visited Kenya to make a film about the modern day slave trade 1585 02:34:21,527 --> 02:34:25,280 The film was called Black Cargo, and was never finished 1586 02:34:26,146 --> 02:34:30,820 On her way back to Nairobi, Riefenstahl was involved in a major car crash 1587 02:34:30,903 --> 02:34:32,103 and nearly killed 1588 02:34:32,922 --> 02:34:38,209 It was a grave setback, but she never lost her passion for the dark continent 1589 02:34:43,301 --> 02:34:47,910 Her first book of photographs of the Nuba was published in 1973 1590 02:35:22,783 --> 02:35:25,908 How did your fascination with the Nuba begin? 1591 02:35:26,213 --> 02:35:27,696 With a photo 1592 02:35:27,905 --> 02:35:33,299 An ordinary photo that I happened to see in an old issue of 'Stern'... 1593 02:35:33,546 --> 02:35:39,529 when I was lying in hospital in Nairobi, after a car accident 1594 02:35:39,674 --> 02:35:44,644 This photo, which I always keep on my desk... 1595 02:35:44,927 --> 02:35:49,837 where I'm working with the Nuba, had changed my life 1596 02:35:50,442 --> 02:35:53,398 It shows two wrestlers... 1597 02:35:53,658 --> 02:35:58,565 Nubas, just what I wanted for my film 'Black Cargo' 1598 02:35:58,832 --> 02:36:04,536 I needed men like that but in Kenya and Tanzania I couldn't find any 1599 02:36:04,829 --> 02:36:07,470 The Masai were slim and graceful... 1600 02:36:07,749 --> 02:36:12,766 but black athletes of the kind I needed weren't to be found 1601 02:36:13,037 --> 02:36:16,337 So I went looking for them 1602 02:36:18,112 --> 02:36:22,916 At the age of 60, Riefenstahl went to live alone with the Nuba 1603 02:36:23,035 --> 02:36:24,235 for eight months 1604 02:36:32,229 --> 02:36:37,849 This is the little bed where I slept for months... 1605 02:36:37,989 --> 02:36:43,904 with hundreds of wild dogs around me 1606 02:36:44,214 --> 02:36:47,801 Strangely enough, I was happy 1607 02:37:15,940 --> 02:37:19,888 Wrestlers from different tribes assembled to play for a wrestling festival 1608 02:37:53,815 --> 02:37:58,090 Funded by a friend, August Arnold, who ran a camera company in Munich, 1609 02:37:58,468 --> 02:38:01,142 Riefenstahl took both photographs and film footage 1610 02:38:01,143 --> 02:38:03,108 of the Nuba during his stay 1611 02:38:04,433 --> 02:38:07,880 Her Nuba footage has never been shown publicly before 1612 02:38:08,730 --> 02:38:12,334 But it was her Nuba photographs that brought her back to prominence 1613 02:38:28,386 --> 02:38:34,316 The photos weren't so important. I went there to get to know the people 1614 02:38:34,446 --> 02:38:39,437 But, as always when I'm travelling, I took a few shots 1615 02:38:39,647 --> 02:38:43,921 Whatever appealed to me - their lifestyle, the way they moved... 1616 02:38:44,056 --> 02:38:48,579 their physical types, their faces, their rituals 1617 02:38:48,832 --> 02:38:52,964 I never thought I'd publish the results 1618 02:39:11,025 --> 02:39:13,749 The Seraba, a herdsmen's encampment 1619 02:39:21,749 --> 02:39:24,040 The young men would live in the Seraba encampment, 1620 02:39:24,041 --> 02:39:27,053 cut-off from the village, and prepare themselves for 1621 02:39:27,054 --> 02:39:29,103 the traditional wrestling contests 1622 02:39:32,007 --> 02:39:34,736 The adolescents go through an initiation rite 1623 02:39:35,103 --> 02:39:37,883 Only then can they take part in the wrestling 1624 02:39:38,677 --> 02:39:41,719 As a mark of their membership of the Seraba, the young men 1625 02:39:41,720 --> 02:39:44,632 cover themselves with ash and paint their bodies 1626 02:39:45,364 --> 02:39:47,723 The ash has a ritual significance. 1627 02:39:48,232 --> 02:39:51,549 It is meant to give them strength and beauty 1628 02:39:53,386 --> 02:39:57,731 The Nuba were strange beings to me 1629 02:39:59,078 --> 02:40:05,546 I'd never met native Africans before 1630 02:40:05,819 --> 02:40:08,954 They surprised me by their character 1631 02:40:11,045 --> 02:40:12,934 They were poor 1632 02:40:13,242 --> 02:40:18,677 They only had their land and a little water but they were happy 1633 02:40:18,838 --> 02:40:24,382 They weren't suspicious. We soon got to know each other using a few words 1634 02:40:24,540 --> 02:40:28,338 They were so warm and cheerful 1635 02:40:28,634 --> 02:40:33,572 It made me think "How little one needs to be happy" 1636 02:40:33,713 --> 02:40:38,776 I've often been back and I've always felt at ease there 1637 02:40:50,850 --> 02:40:55,089 Over 3000 metres of film footage of the Nuba is stored in 1638 02:40:55,090 --> 02:40:57,068 Leni Riefenstahl's basement 1639 02:40:57,659 --> 02:41:01,362 But the film about the Nuba, a pet project for so many years 1640 02:41:01,627 --> 02:41:03,180 has never been completed 1641 02:41:04,149 --> 02:41:07,952 It is true that some important material was destroyed during processing 1642 02:41:08,688 --> 02:41:13,587 But what prevents such an enthusiastic editor from cutting her own work 1643 02:41:16,936 --> 02:41:19,955 Just before setting off on her second Nuba expedition 1644 02:41:20,208 --> 02:41:22,706 Riefenstahl was to have a decisive encounter 1645 02:41:23,072 --> 02:41:24,878 She met Horst Kettner, 1646 02:41:25,474 --> 02:41:29,075 40 years her junior, he nevertheless became her companion 1647 02:41:29,316 --> 02:41:32,381 working and travelling with her as he still does today 1648 02:41:35,403 --> 02:41:39,541 For the next Nuba expedition, Riefenstahl would be better equipped 1649 02:41:40,079 --> 02:41:41,594 Horst would be her cameraman 1650 02:41:42,530 --> 02:41:45,150 She had trained him herself in the course of her travels 1651 02:42:39,267 --> 02:42:41,875 A wrestling festival among the Masaki Nuba 1652 02:42:42,638 --> 02:42:45,520 These Masaki Nuba wrestling festivals begin 1653 02:42:45,521 --> 02:42:47,714 after first harvest in November 1654 02:42:47,715 --> 02:42:50,117 and last until the end of March 1655 02:42:54,675 --> 02:42:57,003 The contests never end brutally 1656 02:42:57,284 --> 02:43:00,692 The wrestler who throws his opponent on his back wins 1657 02:43:00,982 --> 02:43:03,602 There is a referee to oversee the fair play 1658 02:43:30,745 --> 02:43:33,872 A 160 miles away, is another tribe 1659 02:43:34,071 --> 02:43:36,782 with very different customs and language 1660 02:43:45,429 --> 02:43:50,861 These are the Nuba of Kao. They're Nuba too but quite different 1661 02:43:52,032 --> 02:43:57,258 Their nature is quite unlike the Masaki Nuba 1662 02:43:57,954 --> 02:44:01,488 They're wild. Not as peaceable as the other Nuba 1663 02:44:01,632 --> 02:44:05,913 It's difficult to work with them but worth the effort 1664 02:44:06,042 --> 02:44:07,795 They're artists 1665 02:44:08,101 --> 02:44:13,706 More gifted than any other tribe I've seen 1666 02:44:14,129 --> 02:44:16,221 They paint wonderful masks 1667 02:44:16,516 --> 02:44:21,369 Each one more interesting than the last 1668 02:44:21,518 --> 02:44:24,791 And they do them in just 20-30 minutes 1669 02:44:25,067 --> 02:44:26,523 What are they for? 1670 02:44:27,056 --> 02:44:32,397 Purely to beautify themselves. It's just decoration 1671 02:44:32,577 --> 02:44:38,615 There's a ritual symbolism to the signs found on many of them 1672 02:44:38,775 --> 02:44:39,999 For instance... 1673 02:44:40,186 --> 02:44:43,163 some have exaggerated their eyes 1674 02:44:43,425 --> 02:44:46,894 They want to make their eyes seem larger 1675 02:44:47,190 --> 02:44:52,704 And on others the lines are stylised representations... 1676 02:44:52,999 --> 02:44:58,175 of gazelles and other animals they know 1677 02:45:07,192 --> 02:45:12,879 It's amazing. Every mask is different 1678 02:45:21,917 --> 02:45:28,401 I'm more attracted by an aesthetic subject than by an ugly one 1679 02:45:29,860 --> 02:45:33,287 I can't be creative with a negative subject 1680 02:45:33,592 --> 02:45:38,091 I only become creative and have ideas... 1681 02:45:38,255 --> 02:45:44,304 when dealing with something which stimulated my enthusiasm 1682 02:45:44,616 --> 02:45:47,042 That's been true of all my films 1683 02:45:48,365 --> 02:45:51,031 A dance ceremony of the Nuba of Kao 1684 02:45:51,590 --> 02:45:55,471 These ceremonies take place after the traditional knife contests 1685 02:45:58,890 --> 02:46:01,136 Only virgins are allowed to dance 1686 02:46:01,538 --> 02:46:04,305 The girls woo the fighters with their dancing 1687 02:46:10,538 --> 02:46:12,750 According to an American anthropologist 1688 02:46:13,385 --> 02:46:18,151 the Nuba consider their own bodies as the highest form of art 1689 02:47:09,726 --> 02:47:15,259 It's not just the masks of these Nuba that are interesting... 1690 02:47:15,594 --> 02:47:17,848 but also their hair decorations 1691 02:47:18,130 --> 02:47:22,823 Here you see, for example, this notch in the hair 1692 02:47:22,952 --> 02:47:28,824 And here too. That means he's a Kaduma - they're the only men... 1693 02:47:29,167 --> 02:47:31,116 allowed to fight 1694 02:47:36,789 --> 02:47:41,216 Comparing her famous Nuba photographs with the massive film footage, 1695 02:47:41,438 --> 02:47:46,317 it is easier to understand why her promised Nuba film never materialized 1696 02:47:47,105 --> 02:47:49,010 Working without a professional cameraman 1697 02:47:49,365 --> 02:47:52,287 and unable to dictate and influence all the actions, 1698 02:47:52,651 --> 02:47:58,287 Riefenstahl, the obsessive perfectionist couldn't be in total control of the material 1699 02:47:58,691 --> 02:48:01,697 and could not reach the aesthetic heights to which she aspired 1700 02:48:04,721 --> 02:48:08,182 You mean Susan Sontag? 1701 02:48:09,870 --> 02:48:14,395 It's a mystery to me... 1702 02:48:14,530 --> 02:48:18,691 how such an intelligent woman can talk such rubbish 1703 02:48:18,968 --> 02:48:20,848 I took these pictures... 1704 02:48:21,104 --> 02:48:25,355 of the Nuba, just as they live, unobserved, without posing 1705 02:48:25,597 --> 02:48:29,202 What can be fascist about that? I don't understand 1706 02:48:29,469 --> 02:48:33,726 Her involvement with the Nuba led once again to doubts about her intentions 1707 02:48:33,986 --> 02:48:35,892 and questions of her aesthetics 1708 02:48:36,375 --> 02:48:37,804 The cult of the body beautiful 1709 02:48:38,055 --> 02:48:40,765 The celebration of masculine power and strength 1710 02:48:41,211 --> 02:48:43,439 Riefenstahl had heard these reproaches before 1711 02:48:44,260 --> 02:48:46,239 It's a lot of rubbish 1712 02:48:46,542 --> 02:48:51,283 If you're living among such natural people and carry a camera... 1713 02:48:51,543 --> 02:48:54,129 and they don't want to be photographed... 1714 02:48:54,265 --> 02:49:00,672 you can still take shots because they get to know you 1715 02:49:00,929 --> 02:49:05,502 But what has that got to do with Strength and Beauty? 1716 02:49:05,765 --> 02:49:08,514 I've not changed these people 1717 02:49:15,254 --> 02:49:20,943 They're very healthy human beings. There's no sickness in the tribe 1718 02:49:21,197 --> 02:49:27,609 The old people sit in dark houses, in shadow, so you can't film them 1719 02:49:27,784 --> 02:49:32,178 Those who walk about outside are mainly young, healthy 1720 02:49:32,450 --> 02:49:36,220 Many also happen to be beautiful 1721 02:49:36,495 --> 02:49:39,530 But I didn't create them. God did 1722 02:50:00,788 --> 02:50:06,801 Have you ever thought how one might define a fascist aesthetic? 1723 02:50:07,082 --> 02:50:11,286 I don't understand the question. I've no concept of fascism... 1724 02:50:11,465 --> 02:50:14,997 unless it be the Hitler salute... 1725 02:50:15,175 --> 02:50:20,450 or the fascist salute with the raised right hand 1726 02:50:20,608 --> 02:50:23,824 - I can't imagine anything - No visual aesthetic? 1727 02:50:23,963 --> 02:50:28,684 No, I've no idea what that might mean 1728 02:51:29,140 --> 02:51:33,110 In the 1970s, Riefenstahl discovered another refuge 1729 02:51:33,216 --> 02:51:36,208 far from the madding crowd, underwater 1730 02:51:45,762 --> 02:51:52,102 Horst, could you kindly bring me the reel with the sharks in close-up? 1731 02:52:02,589 --> 02:52:07,966 We've a shot somewhere of Herbert... 1732 02:52:08,367 --> 02:52:11,805 with a fish in his mouth and the shark snatching it 1733 02:52:12,122 --> 02:52:13,937 I'd like that shot 1734 02:52:17,663 --> 02:52:21,573 I think it's in Reel 3. I'll fetch it for you 1735 02:52:21,858 --> 02:52:23,531 Please, it's important 1736 02:53:18,466 --> 02:53:22,671 At the age of 70, Riefenstahl passed her scuba diving test 1737 02:53:23,087 --> 02:53:25,278 In order to be allowed to take the test at all, 1738 02:53:25,543 --> 02:53:27,302 she had to claim to be only 50 1739 02:53:28,152 --> 02:53:30,439 Since then, she has dived with Horst in some of 1740 02:53:30,440 --> 02:53:33,531 the world's most spectacular underwater locations 1741 02:53:39,765 --> 02:53:41,976 She trained Horst to be her cameraman 1742 02:53:42,427 --> 02:53:45,424 Horst uses an underwater video camera that is protected 1743 02:53:45,425 --> 02:53:47,757 by a casing designed by himself 1744 02:53:50,884 --> 02:53:53,869 They are now working on an ambitious underwater epic 1745 02:53:54,153 --> 02:53:56,592 that would probably prove to be their last 1746 02:53:59,449 --> 02:54:04,513 How long can we stay underwater? 1747 02:54:04,961 --> 02:54:09,616 - Twenty minutes maximum - We'll need to shoot all the scenes 1748 02:54:19,608 --> 02:54:24,101 As always, Riefenstahl takes stills and supervises the lighting 1749 02:54:24,344 --> 02:54:26,340 while Horst operates the camera 1750 02:54:44,249 --> 02:54:48,851 At the age of 90, Riefenstahl is probably the oldest diver in the world 1751 02:54:49,422 --> 02:54:52,360 Her increasing concern about the threat to marine life 1752 02:54:52,647 --> 02:54:55,404 has led her to become a member of Greenpeace 1753 02:54:58,240 --> 02:55:00,563 Give me the mouthpiece 1754 02:55:16,000 --> 02:55:19,008 - There's no air in it - Yes, look 1755 02:59:33,655 --> 02:59:35,456 It was great 1756 02:59:48,389 --> 02:59:51,840 The 'crown of thorns' we filmed today was good 1757 03:00:00,153 --> 03:00:03,794 But you didn't hold the camera steady 1758 03:00:04,051 --> 03:00:08,132 I was being pushed by the current 1759 03:00:11,834 --> 03:00:14,217 The visibility is very poor 1760 03:00:15,903 --> 03:00:19,381 We should really shoot it again 1761 03:00:19,663 --> 03:00:23,716 - There was too much plankton - That's quite good 1762 03:00:27,086 --> 03:00:30,273 Well done. That's a good shot 1763 03:00:30,864 --> 03:00:33,784 I tried a bit of side-lighting 1764 03:00:34,048 --> 03:00:37,322 But you kept telling me to take the lamp away 1765 03:00:37,460 --> 03:00:40,273 I meant the one with the blue filter 1766 03:00:40,589 --> 03:00:43,366 I see. You wanted the red 1767 03:00:43,537 --> 03:00:48,806 That's very good. I like that very much 1768 03:00:52,021 --> 03:00:54,747 This is too dark, as if you had under-exposed it 1769 03:00:54,884 --> 03:00:58,666 - That was deliberate - Why deliberate? It was too dark 1770 03:01:05,287 --> 03:01:07,242 Now that's a good shot 1771 03:01:14,714 --> 03:01:18,811 Diving up a depth of a 100 ft. they encounter a giant stingray 1772 03:01:19,475 --> 03:01:21,914 One touch of its tail would be lethal 1773 03:03:32,052 --> 03:03:37,602 That's really fantastic. We were so lucky 1774 03:03:38,372 --> 03:03:43,623 In 18 years' diving, we've never had that 1775 03:03:43,911 --> 03:03:46,171 We've never had it before 1776 03:03:46,879 --> 03:03:49,320 Is that the first or the second? 1777 03:03:49,601 --> 03:03:52,990 That's the big one eating 1778 03:04:11,311 --> 03:04:14,804 From great mountain heights and worldwide fame 1779 03:04:15,254 --> 03:04:19,182 Riefenstahl has descended in the twilight years of her life 1780 03:04:19,288 --> 03:04:21,124 to a silent world 1781 03:04:23,698 --> 03:04:27,558 It is no longer the noble human form that preoccupies her 1782 03:04:28,133 --> 03:04:31,181 but the exotic marine life of the underwater kingdom 1783 03:05:13,786 --> 03:05:18,744 Underwater, far from the public gaze is where she is happiest 1784 03:05:19,647 --> 03:05:23,033 But, even here she cannot escape 1785 03:05:23,034 --> 03:05:27,132 the long shadows cast by her past 1786 03:05:27,670 --> 03:05:29,124 I feel this country... 1787 03:05:29,401 --> 03:05:32,833 is still waiting for you to say publicly: 1788 03:05:33,105 --> 03:05:36,157 "I made a mistake. I'm sorry" 1789 03:05:36,722 --> 03:05:40,118 Being sorry isn't nearly enough 1790 03:05:40,397 --> 03:05:44,106 But I can't tear myself apart or destroy myself 1791 03:05:44,406 --> 03:05:49,659 It's so terrible. I've suffered anyway for over half a century 1792 03:05:49,959 --> 03:05:52,302 And it will never end, until I die 1793 03:05:52,615 --> 03:05:57,169 It's such an incredible burden, that to say sorry... 1794 03:05:59,374 --> 03:06:04,477 It's inadequate, it expresses too little 1795 03:06:04,759 --> 03:06:09,968 Doesn't it hurt to read again and again that you're irredeemable? 1796 03:06:10,262 --> 03:06:15,479 Of course it hurts. It makes me very, very sad 1797 03:06:15,749 --> 03:06:20,361 But because it never stops and people keep on saying it... 1798 03:06:20,502 --> 03:06:22,611 I have to live with it 1799 03:06:22,898 --> 03:06:25,876 It casts such a shadow over my life... 1800 03:06:26,026 --> 03:06:30,926 that death will be a blessed release 1801 03:06:31,506 --> 03:06:34,082 I feel people are expecting... 1802 03:06:34,344 --> 03:06:36,846 an admission of guilt from you 1803 03:06:37,534 --> 03:06:41,615 Well, what do you mean by that? What am I guilty of? 1804 03:06:41,752 --> 03:06:46,106 I can and do regret making the film of the 1934 Party Congress... 1805 03:06:46,357 --> 03:06:48,168 'Triumph of the Will' 1806 03:06:48,452 --> 03:06:53,686 I regret... no, I can't regret that I was alive in that period 1807 03:06:53,969 --> 03:06:59,810 But no words of anti-semitism ever passed my lips. Nor did I write any 1808 03:06:59,982 --> 03:07:04,533 I was never anti-semitic and I never joined the Nazi Party 1809 03:07:04,688 --> 03:07:07,550 So what am I guilty of? Tell me that 1810 03:07:07,690 --> 03:07:11,985 I didn't drop any atom bombs. I didn't denounce anyone 1811 03:07:12,153 --> 03:07:14,689 So where does my guilt lie?